SIP speedo

[nickw]

I wired my speedo incorrectly (without the power box) and think I have burnt it out because I cannot get it to work. Are they repairable? It will be a costly mistake if not. I've been on SIP website and I couldn't find anything to help. Don't really want to ring them at the moment because there are more important things going on

[coaster]

When you say you cant get it to work do you mean nothing at all? Does it light up? How did you connect it if not through the power box?

[nickw]

I wired the speedo directly to the power and light wires (red and brown ) without realising the power box had to go in between. I started the scooter up and realised that the power box was needed when it wouldn't work. I hadn't read the instructions properly. I searched on here and saw advice about connecting it to a battery so I tried that but no luck. I cannot get any response from it.

[Fast n Furious]

The clock itself is a 5v device. The box is a step down to 5v regulator.
Yes.... they can be repaired. Probably costs around the same as getting a new one.

[coaster]

[quote="nickw"]I wired the speedo directly to the power and light wires (red and brown ) without realising the power box had to go in between. I started the scooter up and realised that the power box was needed when it wouldn't work. I hadn't read the instructions properly. I searched on here and saw advice about connecting it to a battery so I tried that but no luck. I cannot get any response from it.[/quote}

I would think you arent the first to do that so it would be a good idea to contact SIP for a price first. If that doesnt work out I would consider contacting Anthony Tambs (Scootronics) via his Facebook age.

[nickw]

The clock itself is a 5v device. The box is a step down to 5v regulator.
Yes.... they can be repaired. Probably costs around the same as getting a new one.

Cheers for that, I didn't realise what the box was for.

I would think you arent the first to do that so it would be a good idea to contact SIP for a price first. If that doesnt work out I would consider contacting Anthony Tambs (Scootronics) via his Facebook age.

Cheers, I think that might be the easiest way to go

[solostax]

Unfortunately, the many standard Lambretta speedometers that I’ve fitted (amongst my LI ,GP and Jet 200 ) have proved inconsistent, inaccurate and unreliable.
So looking for an acceptably looking modern replacement have for a long time been interested in the SIP speedo but feel it still doesn’t exactly cater to many Lambretta owners.
SIP Speedo .
Love the look, accuracy, meter function switching, and other inbuilt features but as a direct substitute for the moving needle speedometer ?????
Impressive as it might look, having a speedometer that implies the machine it is fitted to is capable of fantastic speed (140), it’s practicality is impaired when fitted to a machine unlikely to achieve even half its advertised maximum speed or RPM. If the majority of accrued mileage is spent traveling within the 30-50mph speed band, this is the range that needs to be monitored closely to avoid speeding violations, and as such an easy to read speedo is essential.
An original 70 mph Lambretta instrument has a full-scale needle deflection (FSD) of needle rest 0 to 70 mph of 125 degrees. The needle deflection from an indicated 30 to 70 mph = 40 degrees.
The main SIP display as used as a speedometer has an FSD of 135 degrees and the needle deflection from an indicated 30 to 70 mph = only 15 degrees.
A similar insensitive (but accurate) output is displayed if the main meter is used as a tacho.
In practical terms, it would be less easy to visually determine precise speeds or RPM as opposed to a large FSD instrument.
But bad practice to just criticise without suggesting a solution…..
Without going into the electronic circuitry, surely a neater solution would be for those who manufacture the speedo (COS?) to redesign the backplate to read mph for us in the UK. With speed markings to 70mph (or whatever required) .The electronics that obviously take a pulse per wheel revolution x circumference over time to display accurate speed. These pulses can be electronically manipulated to deflect the needle to the appropriate position.
Although I believe it ain’t rocket science perhaps we have a rocket scientist in the membership to enlighten?

[Fast n Furious]

Any speedo that performs a full scale deflection calibration (homing) on power up uses a stepper motor to perform that function. The accuracy of these meters is absolute from this point.
There is always some minor inaccuracy throughout the range when compared to a good satnav speedo. This is because the faster you go the bigger the circumference the tyre becomes due to centrifugal force especially with soft sidewall tyres. So the number of pulses per rev is changed ever so slightly. The satnav, on level ground, doesn't suffer here.
When I calibrated the number of pulses per rev to input on my SiP digital speedo it was based on figures and measurements like the shit instruction for this product poorly explain. I found it necessary to tweek one of the pulse figures ever so slightly so the SiP and the Satnav readouts were cock on at 40MPH. At 85MPH Satnav, the SiP reads 84
Good enough for me. With another thousand miles of wear on the front tyre It should read spot on, at pace.

[solostax]

Fast n Furious

Thanks for the reply and thankfully, as previously noticed there are plenty of well informed colleagues on here to compensate with advice for the poor instructions for the SIP installation.
I made two typos on my report :- Both in regard to the angular movement the needle makes indicating speed between 50 and70 in an original versus a SIP speedo. The angles are appropriate to 30 to 50 rather than 50 to 70 as printed.
In short I’m sure SIP would sell more Speedos if they were rated in MPH and the maximum deflection was relevant to normal and mildly tuned Lambrettas.
Interesting that your SIP and GPS are that close at 85mph ,surely you weren’t calibrating whilst riding at that speed???
Regards
Mark

[Fast n Furious]

The SiP's can be set up to show KPH or MPH.
On the Mk1's, if MPH was selected, then it defaulted to showing Fahrenheit as the CH temp scale and Celsius under KPH.
I believe they made some firmware changes on the Mk2's to change this.

[solostax]

Thanks for the further info.
When these speedos first came to market I enquired of SIP whether they might be providing a MPH version analogue style moving needle meter with realistic max speed appropriate to 125,150,175,200 and mildly tuned engined Lambrettas.I heard nothing ,
The internal circuitry is commonplace and inexpensive and it seems they have incorporated this technology into a neat authentic looking case which has appealed to Lambretta owners.But we are still being short changed.
I believe the manufacturers have missed a trick or are overcharging for this great looking Speedo using existing inexpensive electronic innards.Either way, the gap in the market could be filled for a reliable analogue needle instrument that doesn’t boast ridiculous speeds. If the manufacturers will not oblige with a 70 mph max instrument, perhaps an entrepreneur might provide modification kits to enable these existing 140 (mph) speedos to cater for those who want an electronic substitute without compromise.If the existing glass can be easily removed an overlay dial face indicating 70mph could be fixed.To enable an accurate reading another magnet fitted opposite the existing would provide double pulses per revolution,thereby matching input to output display.All without interfering with the electronics.

[Fast n Furious]

I see what you're saying.
Actually...... all you would need to do, is to have an analogue face scaled to the maximum value you desire (Say 70) A printed transfer overlay would do it. Then, using the pulse scaling function, which is a combination of the number of pulses per wheel rev and the circumference of the front tyre, to calibrate it to the new clock face scale. In this case scenario you would double the pulse per rev (or is it pulses per mile on these SiPs.... I can't remember) figure or halve the tyre circumference to get an FSD at 70MPH..........No need for any changes of hardware or firmware.
There would be no need for it to show it as MPH or KPH. In the UK it's supposed to be MPH. The SiP has a program function to change the digital display from MPH to KPH anyway.
Fundamentally..... A SiP lammy clock face is too small for anything other than displaying speed and revs unless you have superhuman vision.

[solostax]

Fast n furious
Thanks for the suggestions and yes indeed I would want the speedo needle to travel right accross the dial face at 70mph, not just half way as at present.
I was under the impression the unit did not need further programming to input the actual circumference and presumed it came preprogrammed for a standard 10' tyre..if the unit is programmable a second magnet wouldn't be necessary..
Now we are getting somewhere on this subject I'm interested to discover who else would like to modify their existing SIP speedo..
If there proves to be a significant demand I would look to getting a quantity of professional looking overlay dial faces made to sell at cost.
The other consideration of invalidating the manufacturers warranty by removing the facia glass might dissuade others to modify?
Who knows, SIP might get the hint and offer a modification kit?

[coaster]

I have mine set up with the analogue needle displaying revs and I have the speed on the digital display.

[Fast n Furious]

I have mine set up with the analogue needle displaying revs and I have the speed on the digital display.

That's how I have mine set up.
I suppose its a horses for courses thing?

[solostax]

Hi coaster and Fast n Furious
Please excuse the large type but composing text on my phone is difficult.
I note your preferred setups as per the needle indicating RPM and the speed digitally displayed.But surely the needle never goes past the half way point of the meter and as FnF commented ,the digital readout is very small ?.In any configuration of MPH/RPM ,the meter’s needle never ventures past mid way point and therefore half of the display is redundant (but paid for).Further, the running indication is then compressed into half the available dial area ,making precise readings difficult.

So appreciate the comments but still confident that if the SIP speedos were available as previously described ie simulated 70 MPH analogue moving needle, many Lambretta owners would consider replacing their imperfect original and or modifying a SIP . At present the act of fitting the SIP amounts to replacing one imperfect system with another.Just a few points I feel relevant.

(a) For the price £140? I believe the unit should offer more value.
Ignoring the authentic casing for a moment, browsing the internet reveals equivalent electronics available as bicycle computers with multi functions, bar the tacho feature ,priced from £10 ,including sensors both ordinary magnet or Hall effect .
Electronic multifunction speedos incorporating RPM come in all shapes and sizes to cater for motorcycles/dirt bikes,quads etc ,again the prices start at £35. So the SIP instrument probably contains this technology but because it is packaged in the iconic lambretta case commands a disproportionate price tag.

(b) If it was felt necessary for the original Lambretta models imported to the UK and USA to be equipped with speedos reading an appropriate MPH range ,surely to maintain authenticity these SIP substitutes should also come in that flavour.
Even foreign new cars made for the UK market still have speedos calibrated to MPH.

(c) .Regardless of personal Brexit politics, GB managed to fight off the euro replacing the sovereign pound .
The Imperial measurement of distance has also resisted being replaced by the metric system and the international language in aviation is English ,with Miles .Nautical Miles (Knots) being the acknowledged standard for defining distance /altitude.
I am well acquainted with BAR,hectopascals etc but still use PSI when inflating my tyres.
While our road signs still refer to speed limits in MPH I want an instrument that clearly displays MPH. Just like the original Lambretta sold in the UK.

Of course denying the metric system out of hand is not sensible and indeed the change from £SD to metric decimal made life easier.
We all refer to the engine capacities in metric terms (cc) but power output HP (English devised unit) still sits comfortably with the metric electrical unit KW . (1KW = .75HP )
I also respect the logic interaction between metric units ,that is by design ,not accident, 1000 milliliters of water weighs 1 kilo.,..1kliogram = 1000 grams etc etc
But I ,and I suspect many others, still think distance in mileage , speed in MPH ,beer in pints and some mind altering substances in ounces . Some of us are not quite ready to embrace all the European ways of life…….
What next? Switch to driving on the right?

[coaster]

I dont have any issue with the size of the MPH digital read out on the SIP speedo but I do have issues with size of the temperature readout especially in brightish daylight.

[ULC Soulagent]

I dont have any issue with the size of the MPH digital read out on the SIP speedo but I do have issues with size of the temperature readout especially in brightish daylight.

+1 I bought the new mk2 version as it offered 5 stage brightness levels, looking at getting a small dark visor just slightly covering the speedo face in really bright sunshine plus I’ve started wearing specs

[solostax]

Welcome news Mr ULC soulagent and thanks for the update ,Ive got some welders goggles that could cure that dazzle ! . Since my last, a little update of thoughts etc, starting with a correction :



Would have liked to claim it was a deliberate mistake just to see if anyone was following the thread, but it wasn’t a “Spot The Ball”(s up) contest,merely a real example of
mixing up Kw and horsepower scales and getting it back to front. “ 1Kw= .75 Hp” my mistake.
But perhaps on a personal level , mixing up units of measurement can be a recipe for mishaps.In my case since gaining a license in 1966 my comprehension of distance and speed has been based on mileage and Mph.Whenever car driving abroad I have had to rely on the additional metric subscale printed on the dial face.So, given a speedometer that implies only indicated Kph (no subscale at all) mental gymnastics are necessary to monitor and convert to Mph , an unwelcome distraction!.
If this instrument is to fulfill its role as an “authentic looking” substitute for my Lambretta speedo which happens to be calibrated to Mph, the SIP fails on it’s basic primary purpose, that is to clearly indicate the vehicles’ speed in Mph,in the same manner as the original.,(but without the inaccuracies and unreliability inherent in the original.)
Additional multi functions incorporated in the SIP are secondary ,an attractive bonus but not particularly essential.

Like a spoiled child making a fuss for a new toy which does not yet exist, I want one (actually 3) ,but not in their present form to replace my current originals that are unreliable, inaccurate and wasting space.
I believe the SIP speedo can become a great sensible substitute for the original Lambretta speedo if it offered ,amongst its multifunctions, an appropriate 60/70/80/90 Mph full scale deflection analogue type display.
Together with other modifications or upgrades from the original spec ,like tuned engines ,improved suspension and brakes ,tyres,etc this unit must run the gauntlet of criticism from the purists but I believe ranks as an important improvement.


However at present, to be used anything like the original speedo, which has a wide ranging needle sweep movement ,the unit would have to be switched to implying Kph,which then gives readings up to 140MKph …(equivalent to 90Mph) .Great but as the calibration is now Kph the rider who thinks Mph would have to mentally convert Kph to Mph .It might be the strain of mental gymnastics to monitor and translate alien Kph to Mph that is both an unwelcome distraction and cause for unintentional speeding.Anyway this is the mitigation I would use if appealing a speeding penalty incurred whilst riding a SIP equipped Lambretta .
The optimistic max of 140 Kph is never achievable with my standard engine but could be aesthetically acceptable if there was a Mph subscale annotated on the dial face. but there isn’t.
If the unit is switched to IMPLY Mph on the meter ,the realistic max needle arc is compressed into occupying a fraction of the dial face making any reading more difficult.
In this mode the majority of the dial will never be used unless travelling at speeds in excess of 90Mph.

So in closing I hope SIP gets the message ,caters for us in the UK by redesigning the internals and or supplying retrofitting kits for existing owners.
Finally , I accept I should get out more ……….but hey..due to the present circumstances….......

[Fast n Furious]

I also respect the logic interaction between metric units ,that is by design ,not accident, 1000 milliliters of water weighs 1 kilo.,..1kliogram = 1000 grams etc etc

To be correct...... 1 litre is a measure of volume equivalent to 1,000000 cubic millimeters and has been this way since 1799. It was redefined from the original Greek definition because liquids vary in density depending on temperature and atmospheric pressure.