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Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby xenia1 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:37 pm

MickYork wrote:I don't think he has :mrgreen:

I've read the opening post and this has gone off thread.......if you're wanting to advocate the merits of Adria and the politics of Italian scooter organisations why not start a new thread .....


The two events are very much related. Not that the Club Lombardi rally had anything to do with the official 2017 Euro its the fact the organisers of this event went about things in a very snide way in an attempt to dumb down the Euro at Adria, fortunately it didnt work. The club Lombardia rally had absolutely no credibility whatsoever.
The politics of Italian scooter organisations has every bit to do with this thread, ill keep my comments here thanks.. 8-)
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby superhooper » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:41 pm

I'm all for free speech, but for fig sake why don't you all give it a figging rest?
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Jim Rose » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:30 am

Are you suggesting the newspaper atricle about Adria was faked by someone at Lombardi? Why not go the whole hog and say that the Lombardi sabotaged the Adria track, caused the injuries and somehow fixed the tracks tax returns!

If we look at some of the "facts" we were given about Monza when Adria became the chosen Euro venue some of the bullshit becomes apparent>

Monza as a venue is too expensive: Funny that; a small regional club could afford to put a rally on there at a comparative ticket cost. So that "fact" was not true.
Monza Racetrack was fully booked; Well that was obviously not true.
Hotels in Monza are too expensive; I paid 70 euros a night in a luxury hotel in Monza, I could have got a hotel much cheaper but I chose to stay with the UK contingent. The LCI recommended provider was offering package hotel deals at over 100 euro a night. So that "fact" was not true.
Traffic in Monza is terrible and dangerous; I have worse day riding around Norwich than I did around Monza and Milan. So that ones not true either.

With the above in mind and the alleged rift in the Italian Lambretta club quoting anyone who gives "confidential" information as "fact" is naive irrespective of how important we may think the informant is.

The LCI chose to put the Euro event on in Adria and that was their choice as they are the national club. I attended the event and I was disappointed. I was lucky I could attend both rallies but if I had been forced to choose I'd have done the Euro. The feedback I received from people at Adria was they would have liked to have done both but the Euro came first.

Monza / Milan are the spiritual home of the Lambretta and there was a demand for a rally there to celebrate 70 years Club Lombardi met that demand and those who attended enjoyed themselves. The date for the event was unfortunate but I'd imagine it's difficult to get a space at Monza Track because it's a popular venue. Those that went on to the Euro used there imagination to make that happen. Club Lombardi helped those who were going on to the Euro by storing scooters for them (in some instances having them repaired whilst they were away) so the owner could ride them on to Adria. Personally I had some electrical issues and several Lombardi Club members put themselves out a great deal to get me back on the road so I could go on to Adria. Hardly the actions of people who want to undermine the Euro.

The Euro attracted a massive turnout of people expecting a special celebration of the Lambretta and the Monza event was full almost to bursting. I personally think the two events complimented each other rather than competed with one another.

Many people now want to do a lot more riding than just to and from the rally; to many of us the Euro event is just a destination to aim; for the fun is normally in the trip. The LCGB did consider doing an event within an event for this year with agreed stop overs (or mini rallies) with local clubs on the way to Italy.For some reason the idea was dropped when the destination of Adria was announced. The Monza event shows that there is a demand for that type of thing and we could consider doing that in future long distance Euro trips

Sorry Roy
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby superhooper » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:41 am

Just about lost the will to live now. You have some valid points though.
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Jim Rose » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:51 am

superhooper wrote:Just about lost the will to live now. You have some valid points though.
Super


See you at Shipston?
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby superhooper » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:49 pm

No mate, my son's birthday. Ride safe
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Petec » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:54 pm

The Euro is the same old format every year,and I don't know how you can change that but the people who put these things together put a lot of time and effort into making them possible.the more events that are put on regardless of who, are for the benefit of all who go them. I and my pals regard the Euro as a half way point on our annual lads jolly
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby xenia1 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:40 pm

Jim Rose wrote:Are you suggesting the newspaper atricle about Adria was faked by someone at Lombardi? Why not go the whole hog and say that the Lombardi sabotaged the Adria track, caused the injuries and somehow fixed the tracks tax returns!

If we look at some of the "facts" we were given about Monza when Adria became the chosen Euro venue some of the bullshit becomes apparent>

Monza as a venue is too expensive: Funny that; a small regional club could afford to put a rally on there at a comparative ticket cost. So that "fact" was not true.
Monza Racetrack was fully booked; Well that was obviously not true.
Hotels in Monza are too expensive; I paid 70 euros a night in a luxury hotel in Monza, I could have got a hotel much cheaper but I chose to stay with the UK contingent. The LCI recommended provider was offering package hotel deals at over 100 euro a night. So that "fact" was not true.
Traffic in Monza is terrible and dangerous; I have worse day riding around Norwich than I did around Monza and Milan. So that ones not true either.

With the above in mind and the alleged rift in the Italian Lambretta club quoting anyone who gives "confidential" information as "fact" is naive irrespective of how important we may think the informant is.

The LCI chose to put the Euro event on in Adria and that was their choice as they are the national club. I attended the event and I was disappointed. I was lucky I could attend both rallies but if I had been forced to choose I'd have done the Euro. The feedback I received from people at Adria was they would have liked to have done both but the Euro came first.

Monza / Milan are the spiritual home of the Lambretta and there was a demand for a rally there to celebrate 70 years Club Lombardi met that demand and those who attended enjoyed themselves. The date for the event was unfortunate but I'd imagine it's difficult to get a space at Monza Track because it's a popular venue. Those that went on to the Euro used there imagination to make that happen. Club Lombardi helped those who were going on to the Euro by storing scooters for them (in some instances having them repaired whilst they were away) so the owner could ride them on to Adria. Personally I had some electrical issues and several Lombardi Club members put themselves out a great deal to get me back on the road so I could go on to Adria. Hardly the actions of people who want to undermine the Euro.

The Euro attracted a massive turnout of people expecting a special celebration of the Lambretta and the Monza event was full almost to bursting. I personally think the two events complimented each other rather than competed with one another.

Many people now want to do a lot more riding than just to and from the rally; to many of us the Euro event is just a destination to aim; for the fun is normally in the trip. The LCGB did consider doing an event within an event for this year with agreed stop overs (or mini rallies) with local clubs on the way to Italy.For some reason the idea was dropped when the destination of Adria was announced. The Monza event shows that there is a demand for that type of thing and we could consider doing that in future long distance Euro trips

Sorry Roy


Youre a little confused Jim. No one could fake the tax return anomoly and injuries at Adria however...the organisers of the Lombardi rally jumped on this story and exaggerated it to return lies to the Italian press to insinuate its closure! As ive already mentioned, once circulated this was then proudly announced on this forum by CambTim in an attempt to disrupt / destroy the planned event at Adria. I have all the facts and proof to back this up. You personally may have had some help from club Lombardia members but they were just that...members, the organisers of this event had a very different agenda. As for the date,this was NOT as you think 'unfortunate', it was meticulously planned.

Re the 'Euro' Tino wanted at Monza, well..it never happened did it. As he mentioned to me at Guiselwind it would have been far in excess of what any club could afford to put on an event there on the scale of the official Euro's inc the three days camping, breakfasts, evening meals and Gala dinner plus all the other associated costs a Euro event entails. Instead Tino et al organised a much scaled down rally not even comparable to what a EuroLambretta Jamboree offers.
As for Monza being the spiritual home of Lambretta, how did you arrive at that? It may be close to Milan but just being close is neither here nor there, Innocenti were based in Milan and theres no where in Milan that could offer facilities on the scale needed for a Euro, except maybe on one of the many ind sites but theyre hardly suitable anyway and very much doubt Italian C&U regs were even allow it. Adria, with its massive sprawl and great facilities was the ideal location...
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby xenia1 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:55 pm

xenia1 wrote:
Jim Rose wrote:Are you suggesting the newspaper atricle about Adria was faked by someone at Lombardi? Why not go the whole hog and say that the Lombardi sabotaged the Adria track, caused the injuries and somehow fixed the tracks tax returns!

If we look at some of the "facts" we were given about Monza when Adria became the chosen Euro venue some of the bullshit becomes apparent>

Monza as a venue is too expensive: Funny that; a small regional club could afford to put a rally on there at a comparative ticket cost. So that "fact" was not true.
Monza Racetrack was fully booked; Well that was obviously not true.
Hotels in Monza are too expensive; I paid 70 euros a night in a luxury hotel in Monza, I could have got a hotel much cheaper but I chose to stay with the UK contingent. The LCI recommended provider was offering package hotel deals at over 100 euro a night. So that "fact" was not true.
Traffic in Monza is terrible and dangerous; I have worse day riding around Norwich than I did around Monza and Milan. So that ones not true either.

With the above in mind and the alleged rift in the Italian Lambretta club quoting anyone who gives "confidential" information as "fact" is naive irrespective of how important we may think the informant is.

The LCI chose to put the Euro event on in Adria and that was their choice as they are the national club. I attended the event and I was disappointed. I was lucky I could attend both rallies but if I had been forced to choose I'd have done the Euro. The feedback I received from people at Adria was they would have liked to have done both but the Euro came first.

Monza / Milan are the spiritual home of the Lambretta and there was a demand for a rally there to celebrate 70 years Club Lombardi met that demand and those who attended enjoyed themselves. The date for the event was unfortunate but I'd imagine it's difficult to get a space at Monza Track because it's a popular venue. Those that went on to the Euro used there imagination to make that happen. Club Lombardi helped those who were going on to the Euro by storing scooters for them (in some instances having them repaired whilst they were away) so the owner could ride them on to Adria. Personally I had some electrical issues and several Lombardi Club members put themselves out a great deal to get me back on the road so I could go on to Adria. Hardly the actions of people who want to undermine the Euro.

The Euro attracted a massive turnout of people expecting a special celebration of the Lambretta and the Monza event was full almost to bursting. I personally think the two events complimented each other rather than competed with one another.

Many people now want to do a lot more riding than just to and from the rally; to many of us the Euro event is just a destination to aim; for the fun is normally in the trip. The LCGB did consider doing an event within an event for this year with agreed stop overs (or mini rallies) with local clubs on the way to Italy.For some reason the idea was dropped when the destination of Adria was announced. The Monza event shows that there is a demand for that type of thing and we could consider doing that in future long distance Euro trips

Sorry Roy


Youre a little confused Jim. No one could fake the tax return anomoly and injuries at Adria however...the organisers of the Lombardi rally jumped on this story and exaggerated it to return lies to the Italian press to insinuate its closure! As ive already mentioned, once circulated this was then proudly announced on this forum by CambTim in an attempt to disrupt / destroy the planned event at Adria. I have all the facts and proof to back this up. You personally may have had some help from club Lombardia members but they were just that...members, the organisers of this event had a very different agenda. As for the date,this was NOT as you think 'unfortunate', it was meticulously planned. This is why the event had absolutely no credibility whatsoever..

Re the 'Euro' Tino wanted at Monza, well..it never happened did it. As he mentioned to me at Guiselwind it would have been far in excess of what any club could afford to put on an event there on the scale of the official Euro's inc the three days camping, breakfasts, evening meals and Gala dinner plus all the other associated costs a Euro event entails. Instead Tino et al organised a much scaled down rally not even comparable to what a EuroLambretta Jamboree offers. The hotels you booked, maybe you did get a good deal, many cheap hotels are always available through booking .com/ Trivago ect but.. accomodation was all included in the Euro ticket price. Value for money there was no comparison.
As for Monza being the spiritual home of Lambretta, how did you arrive at that? It may be close to Milan but just being close is neither here nor there, Innocenti were based in Milan and theres no where in Milan that could offer facilities on the scale needed for a Euro, except maybe on one of the many ind sites but theyre hardly suitable anyway and very much doubt Italian C&U regs would even allow it. The traffic you mention around Milan /Monza, all i can think is you hit it off peak or were just lucky, 99% of the time traffic around the Milan ring road is totally chokka and is certainly one road in Italy to avoid. Many years ago being transport manager/ route planner for a big European transport co. (Bakkavor Iberica) Milan ring was always on the avoid list and things really havent changed there one jot! Adria, with its massive sprawl and great facilities was the ideal location...


Ps-sorry Roy but hope you havent really lost the will to live ... :mrgreen:
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Jim Rose » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:36 am

We continue to go around in circles.

I originally posted that the Monza Rally was enjoyable; I made a separate post with my negative comments on the Euro. Both of the posts were based on my perspective as a scooter rider. I also made it clear that if I had to make a choice I would have attended the Euro. As far as I'm aware the no-one missed the Euro to attend Monza.

You have chosen to use this thread to raise the murky issue of Italian Club politics (as you have every right to). Like most of us you have been fed spin by people within Italian scoottering. Most of us listen and file it away and laugh about it later; you have taken it to heart. As far as I'm concerned it's about riding my lambretta preferably long distance as a test of myself and my vehicle.

What happened in the Italian club and how the choice was made is nobodies business but the committee of the LCI. Similarly what a regional clun like Lombardia (i spelt it right finally) have nothing to do with us. I didn't attend any of their meetings so I don't know the truth and I don't care. Overall I had three weeks off riding around Italy meeting new people, making friends and eating good food. The high light of the trip was going around Monza Rack in the shadow of the lambrettas that were tested their in the 60's (their spiritual home).

I spent 5 days riding around Monza and Milan including a trip to the British consul at 9 am which meant travelling in the rush hour I enjoyed that as well and the traffic was no no worse than Norwich. Hotel prices seem pretty consistent around Northern Italy and I book though websites like you. It's actually hard to find a hotel that costs more than 100 euro in Monza which is why I made the reference to LCI travel agents.

I understand the problems with Adria made national tv news and it was right that it was reported on this forum, if nothing else it helped make people decide whether it was safe to go on the track or not.

I'm told by an unconfirmed source (like yours) that the booking had been made for the Monza track. It would have been easier for LCI to book Adria a week before or after Monza so more people could attend both. As for your comments on the scaling down of Monza as a Euro event; scaled down from what to what.
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby northernbloke » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:13 pm

Only thing I want to add to this is strewth, Norwich rush hour must have got a heck of a lot worse than it used to be if you are saying the traffic in Milan is no worse. Last time I went it was as bad as the a4 into london. I mean Milan obviously.
Would have been interesting to see 2 or 300 lambrettas on an organised ride out riding through Milan though.
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Jim Rose » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:18 pm

northernbloke wrote:Would have been interesting to see 2 or 300 lambrettas on an organised ride out riding through Milan though.
you should have gone to Monza as well as the Euro then. I use Norwich as a reference because both Andy (Xenia1) and I live there. I commuted by scooter in London for 20 years before that and Milan was no worse. I will say that if you tackle Milan by car or van it's a different story but we were on a scooter rally.
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby xenia1 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:33 am

northernbloke wrote:Only thing I want to add to this is strewth, Norwich rush hour must have got a heck of a lot worse than it used to be if you are saying the traffic in Milan is no worse. Last time I went it was as bad as the a4 into london. I mean Milan obviously.
Would have been interesting to see 2 or 300 lambrettas on an organised ride out riding through Milan though.


Im in Norwich maybe half a dozen times a year and although its grown over the years its still pretty much a backwater. As for Milan, its like London..the need to avoid is a must..
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby xenia1 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:49 am

Jim Rose wrote:We continue to go around in circles.

. As far as I'm aware the no-one missed the Euro to attend Monza.
Im glad about that,CL's plan didnt work.

You have chosen to use this thread to raise the murky issue of Italian Club politics (as you have every right to). Like most of us you have been fed spin by people within Italian scoottering. Most of us listen and file it away and laugh about it later; you have taken it to heart.
Not taken it to heart at all Jim, it was the snide planning behind this event that i didnt agree with.





I understand the problems with Adria made national tv news and it was right that it was reported on this forum, if nothing else it helped make people decide whether it was safe to go on the track or not.
It made the national press as the relatively small issue of safety was jumped upon by CL and exaggerated into Adrias supposed closure which was then reported back to the press to make up the 'headline'. The poster who reported it on this forum is very close to TS and between them concocted the lies in a bid to ruin the event at Adria, this is why the CL rally had no credibility and needs to be exposed for what it was, a sham../color]


[color=#000000]Im told by an unconfirmed source (like yours)

Im 100% confident in my source of info.
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Re: Club Lombardi Monza 2017 Rally

Postby Jim Rose » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:35 am

Sorry Andy but I've not read your post; you and I will never agree on this and I have decided to focus on my future scootering rather than the past. I've got a bike to build for Morocco, and a couple of interesting rallies in the UK. Spending time on the murky politics of the Italians scootering was fun but my involvement has ended; obviously what you do is up to you.

If I go back to the start of the thread and say thanks again to Club Lombardia for organising a great rally at Monza which gave me some of the highlights of 30 + years of riding lambretta. Special thanks to the individual club members who helped me back on the road so I could go on to Adria. Thanks also to Tim for organising the stunning two day lake tour.

I'd also like to thank the regional clubs and the volunteers at Adria who spent a great deal of time and effort at the Euro 2017
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