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New project - winter model

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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:25 pm

I'm trying to decide how/where to fit my CHT probe. It won't reasonably fit under the plug on my avanti head and would be wrecked after a few plug chops too. So i'm thinking about on top of plug with some tube to secure it, where i reckon it will give the fastest response but will read low
Image2018-01-08_08-07-10 by richardhenderson1968

or fin next to plug. Where i reckon it will read low and respond slow:
Image2018-01-08_08-07-54 by richardhenderson1968

or the back of the head. probably slowest and lowest
Image2018-01-08_08-07-31 by richardhenderson1968

I'd prefer to use the top of the plug, but just want to check it's ok before I start fitting cables etc and the engine becomes a pain to remove. Also, what sort of temps should i expect from a cool/optimum engine?
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:18 am

There have been several other Forum users with the same issue & fitted the ring on top of the plug retained by cut back caps.

However, I would consider making up a stepped washer (top hat) that has a spigot to fit the hole of the ring but a nat's shorter (spigot length) to clamp the ring to the head. Then it can be fitted onto one of the cylinder studs in direct contact with the head.

I reason that the temperature there will be not far off the under plug location & more reliable/responsive than using a fin....
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:29 am

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:
However, I would consider making up a stepped washer (top hat) that has a spigot to fit the hole of the ring but a nat's shorter (spigot length) to clamp the ring to the head. Then it can be fitted onto one of the cylinder studs in direct contact with the head.

I reason that the temperature there will be not far off the under plug location & more reliable/responsive than using a fin....

Yes, I like that. As I don't have easy access to a machine shop I'll do it by using a pair or washers to form the top.that though. Thanks.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:49 am

dickie wrote:
Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:
However, I would consider making up a stepped washer (top hat) that has a spigot to fit the hole of the ring but a nat's shorter (spigot length) to clamp the ring to the head. Then it can be fitted onto one of the cylinder studs in direct contact with the head.

I reason that the temperature there will be not far off the under plug location & more reliable/responsive than using a fin....

Yes, I like that. As I don't have easy access to a machine shop I'll do it by using a pair or washers to form the top.that though. Thanks.


Of course! :roll: That will work just as well! Sometimes I'm blind to the bl**din' obvious....
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:00 pm

As I'm unable to leave things alone, I've changed the ignition before I even tried the other one. Just because I don't like the AC based ignition systems. The way I see it is all modern bikes use DC power with a DC CDI, so that's what I want. If nothing else, I find fault-finding really easy on those systems. The consequence is that I had to squeeze everything onto the bracket that goes above the rear wheel. It's Anthony Tambs CDI and coil with Kytronic advance/retard.

Image2018-04-09_07-27-04 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

Initially I had a 47000uF capacitor instead of a battery but I had to kick it over 6 or 7 times to get the voltage up to the 6-7 volts needed for the CDI to work, so I changed it for 10000uF and it sparks on the 2nd kick now. Unfortunately I can't actually get it running as I'm still waiting for a pipe and my spare BGM won't fit with the big head. By the way, the wiring is obviously temporary as I had little confidence that such a cobbled-together system would work first time.
Image2018-04-09_07-24-50 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

Another half-done job, but I'm happy with it. On another thread, Coaster reminded me that I should slot the head between the fins to promote airflow over the head. I had forgotten, but it was easy enough with the engine in the frame. I just used a regular cutting disc (not slitting) and it took 10 minutes.
ImageLambretta ts1 with avanti head by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

I just like this picture because I like newly built engines. The breathe sweet doesn't really fit over the VHSH bellmouth, but I stretched it until it did.
Image2018-04-09_07-28-48 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

The lock wasn't very secure even though I tried a couple of different ones from reputable suppliers. The original was fine but there was no key and no number so I bought new. Anyway, I resolved it with this grub-screw that you can't see.
Image2018-04-09_07-29-02 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

The front brake would have been a bastard to bleed due to the hose route (up and over), so I rigged it up like this and back-bled it using a fork oil syringe. Took less than 5 minutes once I'd got everything in position. Really firm action, but I'll reserve judgement on how good it is until I've tried it in anger.
Image2018-04-09_07-26-06 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Tonight I fitted the front brake cable which to be honest I was nervous about as I half expected it to be a piece of crap (the front brake set up, not the cable). Anyway, it turned out that the cable was crap but the set up overall seems pretty good (in the garage at standstill at least).

It has good bite and isn't the least bit spongey. The lever springs back nicely.

I used to work in lifts (as in elevators) so I thought if rope grips are good enough for that they're good enough for my brake. They don't bite into the cable like a nipple with screw does and it meant I could wrap the cable round the trunnion rather than go through it which should give the cable an easier time; I'm nervous about it failing, particularly as it's out of sight behind the honrncasting.

There's not a lot of travel between no pressure and fully locked up.

This is the master cylinder with lever untouched:
Image2018-04-13_07-55-05 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

This is the master cylinder with lever pulled as hard as I can:
Image2018-04-13_07-55-25 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

This is how far the lever comes back:
Image2018-04-13_07-55-41 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr

Initially I used a "nylon-lined" front cable that I'd bought; it was pretty poor. The lever action felt 'graunchy' which is a word I just made up by I think describes how it felt. So I scratted round and found one that actually was lined; what a difference. Springs back easily now rather than 90% of the way and a much smoother action as you pull.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby steve t » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:49 am

Remember to leave a bit of free play in your cable to allow for expansion (if you haven’t already done it) I found out the hard way on my remote master cylinder first time down road at least pads where bedded in when I got home :lol:
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:23 pm

steve t wrote:Remember to leave a bit of free play in your cable to allow for expansion (if you haven’t already done it) I found out the hard way on my remote master cylinder first time down road at least pads where bedded in when I got home :lol:

Errr, I havent. Well there's a couple of mm free play but that's just to stop the pads rubbing accidentally. Do you reckon that's enough?

What expands,? I'm a bit puzzled how that could happen. Never had to do that on a hydraulic brake on any bike I've had before. It would be a pain to correct while out as it's hidden behind horncast.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby shane BBoys » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 am

dickie wrote:I'm trying to decide how/where to fit my CHT probe. It won't reasonably fit under the plug on my avanti head and would be wrecked after a few plug chops too. So i'm thinking about on top of plug with some tube to secure it, where i reckon it will give the fastest response but will read low
Image2018-01-08_08-07-10 by richardhenderson1968

or fin next to plug. Where i reckon it will read low and respond slow:
Image2018-01-08_08-07-54 by richardhenderson1968

or the back of the head. probably slowest and lowest
Image2018-01-08_08-07-31 by richardhenderson1968

I'd prefer to use the top of the plug, but just want to check it's ok before I start fitting cables etc and the engine becomes a pain to remove. Also, what sort of temps should i expect from a cool/optimum engine?


Dickie.
what was the outcome of the probe fitment?
Cheers Shane.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby steve t » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:51 pm

dickie wrote:
steve t wrote:Remember to leave a bit of free play in your cable to allow for expansion (if you haven’t already done it) I found out the hard way on my remote master cylinder first time down road at least pads where bedded in when I got home :lol:

Errr, I havent. Well there's a couple of mm free play but that's just to stop the pads rubbing accidentally. Do you reckon that's enough?

What expands,? I'm a bit puzzled how that could happen. Never had to do that on a hydraulic brake on any bike I've had before. It would be a pain to correct while out as it's hidden behind horncast.

Fluid getting warm maybe expansion was wrong word to use old cars on single line master cylinder used to be Same people taking all free play out off operating plunger then blast down road for a few miles then brake stuck on its a fine line between enuff free play and a decent feeling brake lever that's why I used piano wire in stead of Bowden cable ( no stretch ) hope this helps only speaking from my past experience 3 steps forward and 2 back and all that
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:28 pm

shane BBoys wrote:
Dickie.
what was the outcome of the probe fitment?
Cheers Shane.

I ground the edges of an M8 washer so that it fitted perfectly inside the probe ring; this holds the probe central and secure on the cylonder stud. A normal thick MB M8 washer on top then forces it securely onto the head. In a photo above it's on the lower offside stud but I had to move it to the upper one as it fouled the MB clubman.

The clubman didn't fit with the avanti head anyway, so I'm having to wait for the Ron Moss one until I can start it.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:36 pm

steve t wrote:Fluid getting warm maybe expansion was wrong word to use old cars on single line master cylinder used to be Same people taking all free play out off operating plunger then blast down road for a few miles then brake stuck on its a fine line between enuff free play and a decent feeling brake lever that's why I used piano wire in stead of Bowden cable ( no stretch ) hope this helps only speaking from my past experience 3 steps forward and 2 back and all that

Makes sense. I think expansion is the right word. I'll make sure that there's enough free play that the pads don't rub. That'll only make it wamer, expand more, rub harder, heat up even more etc etc
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby Simon_T » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:06 pm

nice looking scoot dude
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby coaster » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:42 pm

With regard to the CHT sensor, I gave up with under plug fitting as they made plug removal very difficult and the plug can work loose (mine came right out) so now I have dremelled a small area as close to the plug as possible whilst still allowing a plug socket to fit. I then drilled and tapped a small hole and fitted the probe into the 2BA size crimp that came with my Gamatech speedo. The readings are pretty consistent with what I got under the plug at around 170 - 190 c.

Well done on the finnage btw 8-)
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby shane BBoys » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:52 am

coaster wrote:With regard to the CHT sensor, I gave up with under plug fitting as they made plug removal very difficult and the plug can work loose (mine came right out) so now I have dremelled a small area as close to the plug as possible whilst still allowing a plug socket to fit. I then drilled and tapped a small hole and fitted the probe into the 2BA size crimp that came with my Gamatech speedo. The readings are pretty consistent with what I got under the plug at around 170 - 190 c.

Well done on the finnage btw 8-)


Good idea the plug coming loose was the problem I got on my TS .

Cheers Shane.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:39 am

Simon_T wrote:nice looking scoot dude

Thanks
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Thu May 24, 2018 9:53 pm

tonight I planned to fit the legshields and toolbox, but as my hand touched the master cylinder I felt what I thought was a leak.

Image2018-05-24_09-29-04 by richardhenderson1968

It's not exactly a leak: I've come across it before once when I used some random hose I had in the garage to replace a master cylinder hose on a kawasaki. The problem is the oil molecules are small enough to pass through certain types of rubber. It sounds like utter boll0ocks but it's true.

Some high pressure fuel injection hose was used to replace it which I'm confident(ish) will be ok.

The bloody thing still hasn't been started as I don't have a pipe yet, but I bought a curly JL3 secondhand on facebook today. It isn't pretty but it'll get it on the road until my elusive ex-box clubman arrives.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby dickie » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:28 pm

It works!

https://youtu.be/AvWh4tb84-8

Just two main jobs to do now...

Add all the trim, badges etc. But I'm still struggling to get the horncast over that hidden master cylinder. It's getting closer though.
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby Topgearskin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Lovely sound. Lovely seat as well!
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Re: New project - winter model

Postby bike grim » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 pm

Nice seat! Who’s done that for you?

Pipe sounds good as well.
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