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LI special - swansong project?

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LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sun May 24, 2020 9:21 am

I'm not bored with Lambrettas, but I am tired of spending unmentionable amounts of money on them, so this may well be my last full project. Unless of course something irresistible turns up :lol:

A mate was offered this engineless Italian 150 special for a good price but isn't really into building them so gave me the heads up. I've got 2 engine builds in boxes so it made perfect sense, especially as the 150 special is my favourite looking Lambretta (alongside TVs3 of course).

Certainly in very good condition, but in definite need of a full restoration.

Image20200521_112221

Image20200521_113010 by richardhenderson1968, on Flickr
there's a weird little garden centre just opened that sells those biscuits at 4 packs for a quid, so how could i resist. They also had 4 cans of wd40 for a fiver and a huge selection of feminine hygiene products. I think they also sells plants etc.

Had it stripped in no time at all due to being in such good condition.

Image2020-05-24_08-52-03

I checked all the cross members and outriggers were in line with a long piece of T section aluminium; the front starboard one needed a little knock back into line, but other than that all was well. A look down the frame from behind indicates it's straight and the glove box to top of steering column measured ok too.

The lower headset had been modified (hacked with a chainsaw) for a hydraulic brake hose, so that's around the corner getting welded up. I'm also waiting on a new rim from Scootopia and a UNI hub from AF, then I'm taking it all for a respray.

I hate this bit as I can never choose a colour. I'm slightly drawn toward a 60s dealer special sort of theme along the lines of S type, but by nature. I'm a single colour traditional sort of bloke. My wife is sick of me trawling google images for inspiration.

A pile of bits.
Image2020-05-24_08-51-46
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Sun May 24, 2020 12:34 pm

I hear you Dickie. Like you I've been there, done that. The amount of money I've spent on the bloody things is ridiculous. Probably the same for all of us really. That's why my latest one will be largely original, scrapes and all. It's the way forward for me. In your case I think I'd just replace the second colour and keep the base white, unless it's worse than it looks.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby Toddy » Sun May 24, 2020 1:19 pm

Nice project that looking forward to seeing your colour choice
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby shane BBoys » Sun May 24, 2020 5:04 pm

Dickie.
I now can see why you need a coke bottle shaped seat as them there biscuits will be no good for the nuts!
Cheers Shane.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Mon May 25, 2020 5:57 am

ToBoldlyGo wrote:I hear you Dickie. Like you I've been there, done that. The amount of money I've spent on the bloody things is ridiculous. Probably the same for all of us really. That's why my latest one will be largely original, scrapes and all. It's the way forward for me. In your case I think I'd just replace the second colour and keep the base white, unless it's worse than it looks.


That's not a bad shout actually. But there's a lot of blue and it may look weird being half immaculate and half a little tatty. Hmmm.

IF I ever get another it will be original paint and staying that way.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby gizmo » Tue May 26, 2020 10:11 am

Certainly a good base for starting from. Paint is a nightmare, me I like something different so I go through colour charts and start picking colours that go together. Problem is there are hundreds of colours. So I go armed to painters with silver and 3 options to go with it. While I am there I see another on a chart. Ooh that's nice I will have that. So now it's back it looks great but should I have. :lol: Sure it will come out spot on. Keep us informed
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dscscotty » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:18 pm

. A look down the frame from behind indicates it's straight and the glove box to top of steering column measured ok too.

There's only one way to check if that frames straight for sure, they're all bent just some to a lesser degree than others. :lol:
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:49 pm

The apprentice must have welded up the headset. Still, it was good enough for a tenner and the little blow-hole will fill easy enough.
Image2020-06-05_08-22-59
Shaped up ok
Image2020-06-05_08-23-20

Our lass's car is a pretty good load-lugger for such a small car.
Image2020-06-05_08-22-25

After it went for blasting, I got some unwelcome news. The mudguard and side-panels were remade Vietnam ones and had loads of filler in them. I already thought the headset was remade as it's a pretty rough casting. So now you start to worry how many frames have gone to make this one?

dscscotty wrote:There's only one way to check if that frames straight for sure, they're all bent just some to a lesser degree than others. :lol:

Scotty, I suspect you may have been speaking with a mutual acquaintance. :lol:
Image2020-06-04_11-16-19
Image2020-06-04_11-16-44

Apparently it just dropped into the jig and is straight as a die with no work needed. This was welcome news as I was a bit nervous that I'd bought a full on Nammer. Leg-shields are good too and seem like the original ones from the bike.

So, some bad, some good news, but on balance, I'm not too worried as it's really the frame that decides what you've got.
Last edited by dickie on Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby MickYork » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:05 pm

Where did you get the frame jigged ? I've got one that needs straightening and i'm looking for the closest to York.

Thanks
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dscscotty » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:44 pm

Its mine, currently residing with a very talented painter/fabricator friend of mine, oh and apparently Dickie! :lol:
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:31 am

So I've started building the motor. Should be nice but not particularly interesting. RT230 Reed valve with phbh30 and avanti ex box.

I bought a 60/110 unused crank from someone on here at least 18 months ago so I don't remember the story very well. Anyway, as I hadn't bought it from a shop, I thought I'd better get it checked for run out etc. So, a helpful man in Darlington who seems quite good at building race bikes was called upon to do the necessary. I'm glad I did as it was well out. In fact, you could see the run out without even watching the.dial gauge. Anyway, sorted now and very much appreciated.

Mr Scott told me that very few cranks are properly true, off the shelf, which was a surprise to me. Get your cranks checked boys and girls.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:39 am

With crank trued up, I hurried home like an excited school boy with an airfix model of a spitfire and fitted it.

Went in no drama which is how it should be with new SIL case and UNI mag flange.

But the clearance between the port side web and the mag flange is huge at about 2mm. I've used a big fat gasket which explains that, but my question is, does it matter? I know it will reduce primary compression, but I don't know the implications of that. I mean, we wouldn't worry if I used lots of base packers to raise the barrel, so is this any different?
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:24 am

No, it's not a very interesting image, but I'm just trying out that post images thing

Image
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dscscotty » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:29 am

Don't be to concerned about crank web clearance, as long as its not big or to small which could result in rubbing, its common practice on race engines to have a larger than expected clearance to reduce drag.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:44 pm

dscscotty wrote:Don't be to concerned about crank web clearance, as long as its not big or to small which could result in rubbing, its common practice on race engines to have a larger than expected clearance to reduce drag.


I worked for a firm that produces explosion proof monitoring equipment for oil drilling & had to be very mindful of the distance between rotating masses & their housings. Nowt to do with Brussels sprouts or mushy peas, it is termed "windage"

I think it is almost universally accepted that primary compression being an attribute is no longer the case nowadays, with it being proved that simply fitting a longer conrod with base packing to suit will increase engine output.

So all those old drive side oil seal plates (with the recess) that we discarded are my preference, as are non full circle crankshafts. Rumour has it that the most powerful ever Group Four Lambretta engine builder went to the nth degree to reduce primary compression with every conceivable piece of crankcase bottom end material removed. How true it is that the mag housing was 'ported' with pockets toward achieving that, we may never know, but the overall results have yet to be eclipsed in a piston ported sub 210 cc engine.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:02 pm

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:I think it is almost universally accepted that primary compression being an attribute is no longer the case nowadays, with it being proved that simply fitting a longer conrod with base packing to suit will increase engine output.


Every day's a school day. I thought long rods were simply used to adjust port timings and accommodate low crown height piston.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:06 pm

Fitting an AF 4 speed close ratio box and 3rd gear is very tight.

You can see from this photo that the tooth of the loose gear is going right into the root of the cluster. The diameter of the loose gear is correct at 100.2mm.

Not sure how to resolve this. One option is that there is an old school gear cutter in an old workshop near me. If he took 0.5mm off the radius, it would be silky. That's the most interesting option, but I'm not sure it's the best one.

All ideas are welcome.

Image
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby HxPaul » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:30 am

Tell AF about the trouble,I'm sure they would have seen that before.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby dickie » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:13 am

HxPaul wrote:Tell AF about the trouble,I'm sure they would have seen that before.

Yes, you're right if course. I spoke with Ben last night and he thinks he knows what's wrong. So I'm sending the box, layshaft and selector to him to check over.
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Re: LI special - swansong project?

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:17 pm

What a shame that the actual manufacturer cannot get these 'boxes consistently good enough. I've known of them too soft & wear out quickly or too hard & snap teeth off.

The profiles depicted are very rough & obviously inaccurate.

If you can machine on a lathe, or get access, far better to make your own from two or more clusters. Get beneath the hardened parts (grind off unwanted sections) & shrink fit relevant portion (usually fourth or third/fourth from a donor cluster) on to the modified cluster is one of several methods......
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