LCGB Forums

The ability to post messages is restricted to LCGB members. Any questions contact us at lcgbadmin@googlemail.com

Ethanol in Fuel

Need help with a tuning kit, how do you tune your scooter, which kit should I choose, and all general tuning and modifcations questions are for in here.

Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Swat » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:43 pm

saw this post on 'pistonheads' forum at lunchtime. Seems to have originated from the Federation of Historic Vehicles (or similar). There seems to be some form of Gov't consultation on the moved to 10% ethanol currently underway & comments feedback sought

I wonder/presume if there is a generic LCGB opinion that could be feedback on behalf of members

ADMIN- Apologies if this post should be in a different area



Message from the FBHVC:

The Department of Transport has issued a consultation document on the subject of introducing higher levels of ethanol in petrol.

Many older vehicles are likely to suffer damage and possibly dangerous fuel leaks if the E10 grade of petrol is used without modification to their fuel systems.

This consultation is focusing on vehicles more than 25 years old.

Whilst wishing to introduce the higher ethanol level E10 grade of fuel, the Government are proposing to guarantee a 'protection grade' of petrol at the E5 grade that is equivalent to the currently available 95 RON petrol. However this guarantee will only last until 2020 when further consultation will take place.

It is possible that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available.

The Federation has designed a survey on petrol usage in older vehicles which will provide valuable evidence in the consultation response.

Please complete the survey and help the Federation preserve our right to use 'Yesterday's Vehicles on Tomorrow's Roads'.

The survey can be accessed by clicking this link: https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS

If you wish to read the consultation document and/or take part in the consultation it can be found by following this link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consul... ... -labelling

The FBHVC survey will close on 31 August 2018 in order to collate the results for the Federation's response to the consultation, which itself closes on 16 Sept 2018. A copy of the response will be made available on the Federation's website.
User avatar
Swat
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:47 pm
Location: East Yorks

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Watfordwhite » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:48 am

Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.
User avatar
Watfordwhite
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:31 pm
Location: Watford

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Nudger » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:35 am

Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.

We all need to be concerned: Ethanol is a shortened name for ethyl alcohol, which is a renewable fuel source made from plant material. Alcohol is a highly corrosive substance that’s hard on plastic, rubber, and even some metals, and over time it will damage vulnerable components. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water more easily than petrol. That leads to water condensation inside fuel tanks, carburettor bowls and fuel lines where air spaces are present. It also erodes rubber hoses and plastic fuel lines. It contributes to rust in fuel systems by creating condensation in the unfilled portion of petrol tanks.
When an ethanol/petrol mixture sits stagnant in a petrol tank for a long time, it can separate due to a process called phase separation. Phase separation, in short, happens when water finds its way into the petrol tank and mixes with the ethanol. Ethanol will absorb and hold water until it reaches a saturation point, at which time the water and ethanol separate. This leaves a layer of alcohol and water at the bottom of the tank, which blocks petrol from entering the engine.
User avatar
Nudger
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:27 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby shane BBoys » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:59 pm

Watfordwhite wrote:Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.


Im confused what is Ron98!

Shane.
User avatar
shane BBoys
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:46 pm
Location: Bradford

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Watfordwhite » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:11 am

Shane,
Ron 98 is the expensive SUPER stuff. Not sure if it makes any difference, but it makes me feel better. Plus I only purchase from the most expensive petrol station in town.
Owning 3 Lambretta's I've got more money than sense.
User avatar
Watfordwhite
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:31 pm
Location: Watford

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Watfordwhite » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:18 am

Thanks Nugger, so I take it from your reply. The new fuel will possibly destroy seals, petrol lines, carb and tank filters at the very least.
Not great.
Will there be any effect on say Pistons? Does Ron95 with a higher Ethonal content run hotter. Will it be like the step from leaded to us leaded?
User avatar
Watfordwhite
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:31 pm
Location: Watford

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby HxPaul » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:39 pm

In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.
User avatar
HxPaul
 
Posts: 1583
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:18 am
Location: Halifax

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby coaster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:20 pm

HxPaul wrote:In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.


Mr G in NYC....he has more than a couple 8-)
User avatar
coaster
 
Posts: 2647
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 1:00 pm
Location: Norfolk, Flying 8 Balls

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby shane BBoys » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:01 pm

Watfordwhite wrote:Shane,
Ron 98 is the expensive SUPER stuff. Not sure if it makes any difference, but it makes me feel better. Plus I only purchase from the most expensive petrol station in town.
Owning 3 Lambretta's I've got more money than sense.


Got ya! I was thinking you had some 2 stroke oil that I had not heard off. DOH!

As in Shell V power, i treat both my mopeds to this both have nicasel lined barrels.

Shane.
User avatar
shane BBoys
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:46 pm
Location: Bradford

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Snailspeed » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:51 pm

Has anyone tried B3C Ethanol shield?
Snailspeed
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:47 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby gaz_powell » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:06 pm

/\/\/\ not yet, but just bought some
gaz_powell
 
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 7:56 pm
Location: Hartlepool

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Norrie Bodge » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:51 pm

Norrie Bodge
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:34 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby gaz_powell » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:08 am

They also do a 2T oil with it in
gaz_powell
 
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 7:56 pm
Location: Hartlepool

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Norrie Bodge » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:19 am

gaz_powell wrote:They also do a 2T oil with it in


Ye seen that Gaz, I thinks I’ll try that stabiliser
Just looks like a little splash in the tank is all what’s needed
Norrie Bodge
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:34 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby ULC Soulagent » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:59 pm

Found this on utube, very interesting take on ethanol in fuel
https://youtu.be/5uGhwwm5pt8
User avatar
ULC Soulagent
 
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:26 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Mr G in NYC » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:45 pm

coaster wrote:
HxPaul wrote:In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.


Mr G in NYC....he has more than a couple 8-)


Yeah just a couple mate .... 8-) OK so after living here for nearly 20 years and seizing
3 tuned engines that were built in the UK and shipped here with me when I first came over ,
I have detuned any performance engine I have , only ever so slightly as to offset the effects
of ethanol in the petrol and set timing to 17 static , so far touch wood it seems to have solved
the issue . except when I had a Rimini long range glass fiber tank , it reacted with the ethanol
and melted the lining of the tank and dumped black tar like substance into the barrel and piston
and thus seized it up , once stripped and cleaned and new tank installed , scoot ran like a top and
the Rapido kit i n it is still as strong as ever. ALSO,
I had a Boston whaler boat that kept stopping out in the Ocean and couldn't figure out why until I inspected
the fuel line which had been melted by the Ethanol , swapped out and no issues after that .
G
Mr G in NYC
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 10:29 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Fred » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:31 am

I use a product called Tetraboost. it's tetra ethyl lead. So not only does it boost octane,it turns fuel back to leaded, thus reducing friction and has ethanol protection up to 15%. Its available on the net
Fred
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 9:36 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Nudger » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:04 am

Watfordwhite wrote:Thanks Nugger, so I take it from your reply. The new fuel will possibly destroy seals, petrol lines, carb and tank filters at the very least.
Not great.
Will there be any effect on say Pistons? Does Ron95 with a higher Ethonal content run hotter. Will it be like the step from leaded to us leaded?


Sorry Watfordwhite - only just come back to the page to see your reply but I think the comments from Mr G in NYC says it all.
I don't believe higher Ethanol equals running hotter.
User avatar
Nudger
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:27 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Scooterlam » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:38 pm

For what its worth, in France I ran the unleaded ethenoyl free and then 10% ethenoyl and on the egt gauge there has a 50 degree difference which was roughly the same difference as a ngk 7 and ngk 8.
Scooterlam
 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:59 pm

Re: Ethanol in Fuel

Postby Fast n Furious » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Alcohol fuel runs with a very different Stoichiometric ratio to petrol.
Typically, the Air fuel ratio for petrol is about 14.7:1. For Ethanol, its about 9:1
So, adding alcohol to fuel will in theory lean out the mixture with a lower A/F ratio. So, slightly richer jetting may be required and poorer MPG is to be expected.
Last edited by Fast n Furious on Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Fast n Furious
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:56 am
Location: York

Next

Return to Tuning & Kits

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests