Why are kits slower than my GP200 I had in 1973

[ROClarke]

Is it a case of rose tinted glasses,but I had GP in the 70,s, it seemed bloody fast at the time and I am sure it topped 70 easy.
At least it felt like it,no GPS in those days to verify speedo of course and traffic was on average slower.
Interest in what people think.
One other thing the thing did not vibrate like my TS1 does

[Solid Air]

Depends which kit you're comparing it to and what range (think geiger counter) your speedo needle covered when you were flat-out back in the day

[ULC Soulagent]

I’d imagine that a well built standard 200 would have probably topped out around the 62-65 mark as we all know well how great the speedo was

[St George]

I bought my GP 200 new in 1971 ( MPU 65J ) > I joined the Companions Scooter Club in Hornchurch and the lads talked me into putting a 30 mm Delly and an orange Ancillotti Exhaust on it. On the way to the rallies it used to fly past the tuned old bikes. It seemed very fast in those days, wish I still had it.

[CHRIS in MARGATE]

Back in the day I was faster off the lights than most family saloons. In 1969 I rode from Margate up the outside lane of the M2 and up though Chelmsford, Colchester and Ipswich and on to Norwich in 3 .5 hours with 2 petrol and cigarette breaks.
Nowadays there is not a car I am overly happy to take on. And I am about 8 stone heavier !

[dickie]

Tune a motor. Push peak bhp 3000rpm higher. Leave the gearing alone. Never hit peak bhp in top gear.

Slower bike.

Maybe?

[peejay]

Tune a motor. Push peak bhp 3000rpm higher. Leave the gearing alone. Never hit peak bhp in top gear.

Slower bike.

Maybe?

maybe indeed

[ROClarke]

I’d imagine that a well built standard 200 would have probably topped out around the 62-65 mark as we all know well how great the speedo was

No,I think official top speed was at least 70 mph.
Perhaps it is a combination of different fuel today,running gear in some cases 50 yrs old and tyres today having higher rolling resistance.

[Rich Oswald]

I’d imagine that a well built standard 200 would have probably topped out around the 62-65 mark as we all know well how great the speedo was

No,I think official top speed was at least 70 mph.
Perhaps it is a combination of different fuel today,running gear in some cases 50 yrs old and tyres today having higher rolling resistance.

CLAIMED top speed, but as ULC Soulagent said, realistically more like 62-65.

[lofty]

I suggest several reasons.
we believed the speedo reading
we were a lot lighter
traffic in general was slower (average top speed of family salon was 80-90 mph, and that thrashing it) which meant we kept up with traffic more easily.
we had 'bigger balls' in that we were willing to thrash the nuts off the scooters, now we are too busy with one hand over the clutch looking for a 1 degree rise in cylinder head temperature.
over the years we have come to believe our own pub bullshit at the time " yeah, got 90 out of it coming here"
pure nostalgia ' fings aint what they used to be'

BTW I did have an SX250 with chrome bubbles that did the ton.. honest

[NorthernJordan]

I’d imagine that a well built standard 200 would have probably topped out around the 62-65 mark as we all know well how great the speedo was

No,I think official top speed was at least 70 mph.
Perhaps it is a combination of different fuel today,running gear in some cases 50 yrs old and tyres today having higher rolling resistance.

CLAIMED top speed, but as ULC Soulagent said, realistically more like 62-65.

I think the claimed top speed was 68mph. Which isn't half bad for a scooter designed in the 60's, particularly considering the claimed top speed of a GTS300 is 73 I think?

I also think there is a massive difference between top speed and having a 'fast' scooter.
When 17 I had a standard Vespa T5, and for a standard scooter it was pretty good with a similar quoted power output as a GP200. I would regularly hit 70mph face in the speedo. However, who actually wants to ride like that? My tuned Lammy tops out at about 80mph (gps), so for the money I've spent it's quite a poor return on the T5. However, it doesn't take 5 miles of dual carriageway to get there...

A well kitted Lammy can be a bit of a beast on the twisty A roads and on a good day (even two up) I can easily overtake most traffic without a second thought. I doubt anyone on a standard Lambretta could even dream of overtake in anything but the most optimal conditions.

As someone who regularly rides alone, when i do join a group it is striking at how slow many people ride despite having much higher states of tunes. It does make me wonder if most people build fast motors but spend half their riding time off the power leaving them feeling dissatisfied?

[peejay]

As someone who regularly rides alone, when i do join a group it is striking at how slow many people ride despite having much higher states of tunes. It does make me wonder if most people build fast motors but spend half their riding time off the power leaving them feeling dissatisfied?

very valid point Jordan. my theory was to kit the scoot and fit tall gearing so i would be cruising at low revs, i've now gone to a 185 kit on a 150 casing so i will have to fit the sat nav on it and rev the nuts off it to get a true top speed, maybe it's just my gearing

[gizmo]

Back in 1979 my italian GP would do 110mph easy. Strangely though it also did 40mph on tick over

[Lockman69]

leaded petrol...plus the fact I now weigh twice what I did back in the day

My old stage 4 200, PHBH30, JL3 with SX gearing once wound up would hold 73gps all day long at 600/650 0n the Egt (LI Crank and motoplat ignition) but since shearing the crank I just cant seem to get those speeds again

[ROClarke]

leaded petrol...plus the fact I now weigh twice what I did back in the day

My old stage 4 200, PHBH30, JL3 with SX gearing once wound up would hold 73gps all day long at 600/650 0n the Egt (LI Crank and motoplat ignition) but since shearing the crank I just cant seem to get those speeds again

Aren't motoplat flywheels heavy, which would explain holding top speed when you got there ?

[Lockman69]

leaded petrol...plus the fact I now weigh twice what I did back in the day

My old stage 4 200, PHBH30, JL3 with SX gearing once wound up would hold 73gps all day long at 600/650 0n the Egt (LI Crank and motoplat ignition) but since shearing the crank I just cant seem to get those speeds again

Aren't motoplat flywheels heavy, which would explain holding top speed when you got there ?

Good point...could well be the reason

[MickYork]

Are we more knowledgeable about gearing ?

Basically a GP200 with a final drive of 5.2 will be revving it's nuts of at over 60.....going like f*k !!

We now alter the gearing and it still does the same speed but without the screaming gearbox.....must be slower ?

I agree that road speeds are faster now and our riding is generally more "conservative" than in our youth......

[Specialcase]

I remember when I bought my brand new SX 150 in 1970 I used to get 70mph on the speedo lying flat on the seat most days, I was on holiday & rode from the Gower coast to Cheltenham non stop, took my bike test, passed, and went straight back, most of the journeys were lying flat! Blimey I wish I still had it.

[Rich Oswald]

I remember when I bought my brand new SX 150 in 1970 I used to get 70mph on the speedo lying flat on the seat most days, I was on holiday & rode from the Gower coast to Cheltenham non stop, took my bike test, passed, and went straight back, most of the journeys were lying flat! Blimey I wish I still had it.

That will have been about 55mph GPS then! ::shock:

[Mag]

I have an Italian GP200 I bought unrestored over 30 years ago, the barrel was used in Sticky’s recent kit book as the base line for big block kits.
I ran it for many years as a standard bike along side my TS, enjoying how smooth and economical it was. Fast it wasn’t (if you ignored the speedo). I tried gps on it a few times and it struggled over 60mph.