electrical advice

[mickey c]

Hi all,
I would really appreciate some help please.
My current build has ground to a halt because I cant figure out the following: I needed a new electrical system so figured the Scootronics AC regulator with DC output plate / kit would give me the benefits of a reliable cdi, DC lights and maybe / hopefully smoother running. i do have a lovely looking spark but the problem is it always sparks, even with the key in off position or removed.
Now i stress this is absolutely no fault of Anthony Tambs who has been lovely on the several occasions I have spoken to him but he mistakenly thought he was speaking to an adult with some level of understanding - I am neither with electrics.
i have tried various wiring combinations but get the same result.
My stator (which I've tested on multimeter & is fine) has a red, white, yellow and green (which I understand I no longer use).
My loom has a brown and green
Anthony's plate has 2 black boxes and the coil.
the smaller box (which I assume is cdi) has 2 yellows, a red with a fuse (for sat nav etc) and a black (earth i assume)
the bigger box (no idea what this is) has a red, orange and green (which goes into the coil).
Sorry this such a long question so I wont confuse matters further by saying what combinations I've tried but any thoughts or suggestions would be so gratefully received!
thanks
Mike

[missing lynx]

I would say the small box is the regulator and the bigger one is the cdi and uses a separate coil the same arrangement as they use on the lml's the green wire is the kill circuit so if the green is disconnected the ignition will always be live or in other words when you kick it it will always spark so you need to connect the green from the stator to the green from the loom normally via the cdi I hope that helps

[rossclark]

The smaller box is the regulator.

The lager one like this is the CDI.

image.jpeg

The orange is the power for the CDI - connect this to either the output from your regulator or a switched DC feed from a battery.

The red is connected to the red from your stator - the pickup trigger - if you also join this with the green from your key switch, in the off position this should Earth the signal from the pickup preventing starting.

Green is the connection to the coil

Black to earth.

image.jpeg

[coaster]

My stator (which I've tested on multimeter & is fine) has a red, white, yellow and green (which I understand I no longer use).
My loom has a brown and green
Anthony's plate has 2 black boxes and the coil.
the smaller box (which I assume is cdi) has 2 yellows, a red with a fuse (for sat nav etc) and a black (earth i assume)
the bigger box (no idea what this is) has a red, orange and green (which goes into the coil).
Sorry this such a long question so I wont confuse matters further by saying what combinations I've tried but any thoughts or suggestions would be so gratefully received!
thanks
Mike

Ok, there apears to be something missing, that green wire that you mentioed going to the coil needs to be spliced to the green wire in your loom which goes up to the kill button or ignotion switch. That wire gets shorted to earth when the button is pushed or switch turned to the off position. I have one of Ants hi-power cdi's and had to do that on mine. just contradicting one of the other responses, you DO NOT use the green wire from the stator with your setup as it takes the power for the spark from the Lighting (Yellows)

[mickey c]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I’ve joined my green loom wire to the red stator & red from Cdi but it still sparked continually.
So I tried putting the green loom wire with the green to the coil and again it still sparked irrespective of what the key does!
I gave taped off the green stator wire & left it doing nothing!
I’m slightly reassured that you guys know your stuff & suggest what I’ve tried but still flummoxed what else to try & what I’m doing wrong.
I know I could bodge in another kill switch but as it’s a complete rebuild, it would be nice for everything to work properly!

[coaster]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I’ve joined my green loom wire to the red stator & red from Cdi but it still sparked continually.
So I tried putting the green loom wire with the green to the coil and again it still sparked irrespective of what the key does!
I gave taped off the green stator wire & left it doing nothing!
I’m slightly reassured that you guys know your stuff & suggest what I’ve tried but still flummoxed what else to try & what I’m doing wrong.
I know I could bodge in another kill switch but as it’s a complete rebuild, it would be nice for everything to work properly!

The green wire going to the coil DEFINATELY needs to be earthed out to stop it sparking. I assume that it is a key switch and not a push button? the switch will need to have an earth connected to it in the headset. I'd suggest connecting a length of wire to the green gpoing to the coil and connecting the other end of it to a solid earth on the frame. If that works it points to either a bad or non existent earth to the switch or a broken wire in the loom. Was this working ok before changing your electrical arrangements?

[mickey c]

Thanks again Coaster
It’s a total rebuild of a barn find so new loom, key switch etc.
again I’m reassured I’m doing what you suggest & will need to check my switch is properly earthed as logically that’s all it can be!
I’ll report back once I’ve done as suggested!
Thanks again
Mike

[coaster]

Thanks again Coaster
It’s a total rebuild of a barn find so new loom, key switch etc.
again I’m reassured I’m doing what you suggest & will need to check my switch is properly earthed as logically that’s all it can be!
I’ll report back once I’ve done as suggested!
Thanks again
Mike

Good man, we're here to help

[mickey c]

Well I’ve redone all the earths & dremmelled back to bare metal. I’ve re done the connection of 2 the greens & it’s still live / sparking all time. I’ve disconnected all the other wires - still sparks, reconnected all wires & still sparking wherever the key is & even without the key.
My only solution is to bodge a switch in between the green LT wire!
Unless anyone has a better idea / suggestion?

[MickYork]

Make sure the 2 green wires are connected to the cdi. Disconnect the green wire in the headset. Connect this directly to the frame. This should stop it sparking. If it continues to spark it's fair to assume there is a break in the green wire. If it does stop sparking it's also fair to assume the switch is not working. Another check is to connect a piece of wire directly to the frame then connect this to the cdi/green wires, this should stop it sparking.

[mickey c]

Thanks very much Mick
I’ve not tried the green from the switch directly to earth so will give that a whirl. I’m a little worried that if it works, I’ll be totally sparkless which to be fair is my usual difficulty!
I wish I understood electrics!!

[Fast n Furious]

The green wire from the stator on this kit isn't used.
To kill the engine, the green wire from the ignition switch has to connect with the red wire from the stator, at the CDI red wire terminal point. This effectively shorts out the pickup coil in the stator when the key is in the off position, preventing the CDi from receiving any firing pulses, which = no spark.

[Scooterdude]

If this is what Anthony calls his universal cdi you should have an aluminium plate with two components attached to it, a cdi unit and a high powered coil. This unit takes power from the lighting coils to enable it to work (yellow wire from stator) i think what you have inadvertently done is connect the green wire from your stator as well as the yellow so in effect your drawing power from two sources making it spark continually, this is bad as you’ll melt the stator in no time at all.

What you need to do is wire the earth or white wire from your stator to the white earth tag on the plate, the green from your stator isn’t used so tape up out of the way, then you need to connect the red from your pick up on the stator to the cdi BUT also splice in the green from your kill button to this as well so you can use the kill button to short out the pick up to turn the engine off rather than the green from your stator.

Yellow from stator connect to one of the G terminals on your regulator, yellow wire from cdi unit splice to brown wire from loom and connect to the other G terminal on regulator.

Make sure ally plate is well earthed to frame and you should be good to go.

[MickYork]

The green wire from the stator on this kit isn't used.
To kill the engine, the green wire from the ignition switch has to connect with the red wire from the stator, at the CDI red wire terminal point. This effectively shorts out the pickup coil in the stator when the key is in the off position, preventing the CDi from receiving any firing pulses, which = no spark.

Ignore my previous advice This is the correct way

[mickey c]

Thanks again guys for the detailed advice.
I’m not using the green stator wire but not tried what’s been suggested.
I’ll hopefully get to have another play later in the week, again I’ll report back
Thanks again all of you!

[mickey c]

The green wire from the stator on this kit isn't used.
To kill the engine, the green wire from the ignition switch has to connect with the red wire from the stator, at the CDI red wire terminal point. This effectively shorts out the pickup coil in the stator when the key is in the off position, preventing the CDi from receiving any firing pulses, which = no spark.

Ignore my previous advice This is the correct way

I had a little play &’I’ve done the above but still getting the same result of it sparking in every key position.
I’ve noticed that if the green loom wire (spliced into the red cdi 8 red stator wire) is touched to earth in the headset, there’s no spark at all in any key position!

Does this point to a knackered key switch ? It is a new (unused) key switch but I did buy it 5 years ago!

[rossclark]

If you have a multimeter put it in beep mode and connect one end to earth and the other to the green on your keyswitch.

In the off position it should beep if it doesn't the switch is faulty - wiggle key see if it changes.

[coaster]

[
I’ve noticed that if the green loom wire (spliced into the red cdi 8 red stator wire) is touched to earth in the headset, there’s no spark at all in any key position!

Does this point to a knackered key switch ? It is a new (unused) key switch but I did buy it 5 years ago!

It could be the switch but more likely that it isnt connected to earth or you have the green connected to the wrong switch position. What switch are you using btw? Italian and Spanish are reliable but Indian ones off ebay are HIGHLY questionable. MB sells a Honda patern switch which has given me good service. Switches normally fail due to 'tracking to earth and results in the opposite problem of NO spark.

[mickey c]

Yeesssssss!! Get in!!

So did as suggested and checked the green key switch & it was doing nothing at all! Brand new unused key switch was a total waste of money & 2 months!!
But I do have a very manky original one which in a moment of being unusually organised, I got Jem Booth to make me a couple of keys for! Put that on & despite being over 60 years & looking very sorry for itself, works a treat!! It does exactly what I want & it Should!
I need to clean it up but overall good outcome, the problem is sorted & I get to keep the original too!
Thanks everyone for your help!!

[coaster]

Phew