casa ss200 vs Quatrinni 210

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Thanks WT No.1
Your advice is appreciated. I will most probably buy from a reputable dealer.
I would like to have a go, but I am a little impatient when it comes to trial and error. I'm one of those people that if shown physically how to do things I usually catch on. However if I am doing it from a book I don't like to go into the unknown if the consequences could end up expensive or dangerous.

Unfortunately, without some inside knowledge, finding an engine builder that will build a good engine is a risk. I have seen some work attributed to dealers with a great reputation & realised that I could never compete & make a living building engines the way I choose with some of the compromises they are prepared to take.

That's why I say that a meticulous build without the merest hint of matching/blue printing cases etc will bring good results. After all, the race RB20's only allow a virtual bolt together format, & those engines fly! However, the RB range is not for everybody as I know a guy that rides everywhere as if he stole his own bike, but he gave up his RB, preferring the power delivery of an optimised TS.

That same technique of the old 'bolt on power' used in race RB20's will undoubtedly work as well with other choices, so if it were my choice, I'd opt for the MQ as the best, uncompromising design. Not only is it 'state of the art' but the format allows the engine to fit any frame, regardless of battery tray, & from what has been said, it is a real Jekyll & Hyde kit....

[Ballspeed65]

As above, a big block rb or ts1 from scratch will cost you more than £3000 in parts then there's the build cost on top where as a quattrini built on your existing case at £3000 seems a good price

The actual quote for quattrini is £3,350 with me supplying casing and gearbox from a well known tuner/engine builder
An extra £400 will buy me an RB 225 from a different known engine builder/dealer. So the quattrini would need to be something special to justify that price tag.

[lozmondo]

What about comparing rb & Quattrini builds from the same builder? fairer comparison.

The difference on price on a Quattrini kit can vary £100. ..if you are basing it on financial outlay.

[bike grim]

The actual quote for quattrini is £3,350 with me supplying casing and gearbox from a well known tuner/engine builder
An extra £400 will buy me an RB 225 from a different known engine builder/dealer. So the quattrini would need to be something special to justify that price tag.

I’m not the font of all knowledge on Lambretta and never will be but I do ride them all year round and do a lot of touring and rallies. I’ve had a good handful of scooters and motorbikes over last 30 odd years. I’m always cautious how I spend my hard earned cash. I’ve had a Pro Porting 283 for a few years and a TS1230, both currently “on the road”. I’ve had an Imola186 and a Rapido 225 in the past. I’ve had a standard Series 1 150 and a standard DL125 in recent years. All very nice to ride in their own way. I’ve never had an RB but I have had a Quattrini 218 built by Chiselspeed for just over a year in a Series1. I’ve raced it (6 Hour Endurance last year), been to rallies on it, I’ve been shopping on it and even ridden it to work. I think they actually are something special. Please make your mind up soon

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

As above, a big block rb or ts1 from scratch will cost you more than £3000 in parts then there's the build cost on top where as a quattrini built on your existing case at £3000 seems a good price

The actual quote for quattrini is £3,350 with me supplying casing and gearbox from a well known tuner/engine builder
An extra £400 will buy me an RB 225 from a different known engine builder/dealer. So the quattrini would need to be something special to justify that price tag.

If the quotations can be compared 'like for like' then fair enough.

However, variations in the specification of other components (say, if an uprated rear hub & layshaft etc cost significantly more from one of your sources) as well as the quality of workmanship must be factored in. The exhausts to be used may even affect price, as I imagine that there is still a limited choice for the MQ etc.

The only real comparison can be made top end only. Then you have to factor in the other attributes that one kit may offer over the other & the absolute desires you wish to achieve. Football Hooligan versus Jekyll & Hyde

I can't recall anybody suggesting it, but the German Forums have a lot of good things to say about the MQ.....I think! Google Translate has to be trusted, but you get the gist

[Ballspeed65]

The actual quote for quattrini is £3,350 with me supplying casing and gearbox from a well known tuner/engine builder
An extra £400 will buy me an RB 225 from a different known engine builder/dealer. So the quattrini would need to be something special to justify that price tag.

I’m not the font of all knowledge on Lambretta and never will be but I do ride them all year round and do a lot of touring and rallies. I’ve had a good handful of scooters and motorbikes over last 30 odd years. I’m always cautious how I spend my hard earned cash. I’ve had a Pro Porting 283 for a few years and a TS1230, both currently “on the road”. I’ve had an Imola186 and a Rapido 225 in the past. I’ve had a standard Series 1 150 and a standard DL125 in recent years. All very nice to ride in their own way. I’ve never had an RB but I have had a Quattrini 218 built by Chiselspeed for just over a year in a Series1. I’ve raced it (6 Hour Endurance last year), been to rallies on it, I’ve been shopping on it and even ridden it to work. I think they actually are something special. Please make your mind up soon

I too am cautious as to how I spend my money, which is why I am not going to jump in without asking other people who have more knowledge and experience than me for their opinions ( which I appreciate greatly) on the subject.
I like the idea of a quattrini. I think I'll ask Chiselspeed to quote to supply complete quattrini engine including casings and gearbox. I would like to keep my current engine in its complete form if I can.
My only reservations about the Quattrini are-
1. They are fairly new and possibly have not been tried & tested as much as some other kits.
2. If in the future if I needed to change the top end, could I change it back to something different, or would the casing have had to have any special machining to fit the MQ?

Thanks all for your replies by the way.

[gizmo]

Enjoyed reading this. I went through same dilemma and decided on the Rb 20. Main reason it is tried and tested but I do like the sound of the Quattrini. Keep us informed of your choices

[bike grim]

Quattrini doesn’t need any welding or machining. Just matching the transfers the same with any kit. If you decided to change to a different kit you would need something that works with a 116mm rod (RB for example) or swap your crank or change the rod. I cannot see why you would want to change it though.

[MickYork]

Does the Quattrini run slightly hotter than a "normal" kit, I've read of some overheating issues ?

[gizmo]

It's going to do a complete turnaround soon. 200 casing's in abundance and small block one's hard to get

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

The MQ oozes such well thought out details that it is (as I have said previously) 'state of the art'

In the UK, the only blow up I have heard of was one local enthusiast, which, even before he honestly confessed, I though may be due to 'Operator Error' in that he rolled off the throttle. Many have succumbed to such a temptation because we drive cars! Unfortunately, our shopping trolleys need fuel to lube & fan (revs) to cool & as long as conventional carburation is the norm, a setting for low throttle is not going to deliver after a blast @ full.

Fundamentally, like the OEM porting geometry, the MQ was not just a take on what goes on in the area of higher performance two strokes with just the transfer ports moved around a bit! So, because an outstanding engineer has re-interpreted the Lambretta reed valve cylinder kit, we now have an uncompromising set-up that encompasses the traditional position of where the inlet is best placed, not where it is worst, wanging into the frame/battery tray!

Bl**dy obvious really & there must be many other kit manufacturers wishing they had done the same, especially as I suggested just that to a UK based producer years ago to receive a thankless, rude reply. We never did exchange cards @ Christmas but now we never will

There must be more than a few potential buyers sitting on the fence, undecided which option to select for an upgraded engine, & that is because it goes against the grain for the UK to associate the small block with such potential performance.

That will change virtually overnight not if, but when, somebody emulates the MQ for the large block. I can virtually smell the 'burning midnight oil' right now......

[bike grim]

Does the Quattrini run slightly hotter than a "normal" kit, I've read of some overheating issues ?

Running normal temps compared to my other 2 engines. GammaTech, sensor into side of head. Shows 90 degC Normal running about and between 120-130deg C if you hold it flat out on a long stretch. Cools down very quickly. I’m using Varitronic with a TMX30 using the power jet. Runs a bit rich low down. I’m going to do the modified cowl as per Sticky’s article. My only complaint with the kit itself was the rubber manifold split. The first few hundred or so had this but subsequent kits have had an increase in rubber in manifold to beef it up. Chiselspeed and MMW both do an inlet so you can use a flange rubber. The original 35mm ID manifold was design for a VHST dellorto. Before lockdown I was experimenting with a Ex- Box. With the CST10 it’s a flying machine when you crack it open But a touch loud. Easily 80plus mph on 4.4 gearing. There is probably no need for a large block kit in my opinion just stroke the small block If you want more cc. Mine showed 25bhp and 20 ftlb at build Out of the box on Chiselspeed dyno.

[Ballspeed65]

Does the Quattrini run slightly hotter than a "normal" kit, I've read of some overheating issues ?

Running normal temps compared to my other 2 engines. GammaTech, sensor into side of head. Shows 90 degC Normal running about and between 120-130deg C if you hold it flat out on a long stretch. Cools down very quickly. I’m using Varitronic with a TMX30 using the power jet. Runs a bit rich low down. I’m going to do the modified cowl as per Sticky’s article. My only complaint with the kit itself was the rubber manifold split. The first few hundred or so had this but subsequent kits have had an increase in rubber in manifold to beef it up. Chiselspeed and MMW both do an inlet so you can use a flange rubber. The original 35mm ID manifold was design for a VHST dellorto. Before lockdown I was experimenting with a Ex- Box. With the CST10 it’s a flying machine when you crack it open But a touch loud. Easily 80plus mph on 4.4 gearing. There is probably no need for a large block kit in my opinion just stroke the small block If you want more cc. Mine showed 25bhp and 20 ftlb at build Out of the box on Chiselspeed dyno.

What gearing gives 4.4?

[ULC Soulagent]

Does the Quattrini run slightly hotter than a "normal" kit, I've read of some overheating issues ?

Running normal temps compared to my other 2 engines. GammaTech, sensor into side of head. Shows 90 degC Normal running about and between 120-130deg C if you hold it flat out on a long stretch. Cools down very quickly. I’m using Varitronic with a TMX30 using the power jet. Runs a bit rich low down. I’m going to do the modified cowl as per Sticky’s article. My only complaint with the kit itself was the rubber manifold split. The first few hundred or so had this but subsequent kits have had an increase in rubber in manifold to beef it up. Chiselspeed and MMW both do an inlet so you can use a flange rubber. The original 35mm ID manifold was design for a VHST dellorto. Before lockdown I was experimenting with a Ex- Box. With the CST10 it’s a flying machine when you crack it open But a touch loud. Easily 80plus mph on 4.4 gearing. There is probably no need for a large block kit in my opinion just stroke the small block If you want more cc. Mine showed 25bhp and 20 ftlb at build Out of the box on Chiselspeed dyno.

What gearing gives 4.4?

[Ballspeed65]

Decision made.
Gone with a different option completely.
RB 252 by Chris Sturgess.

[ULC Soulagent]

Good luck and enjoy