poor performance

[peejay]

hi peeps
currently running very early moggie untuned 225, just matched to manifolds.
SX 200 gearbox, 46 x 15 sprockets.
30mm delli
franspeed touring pipe
dynoed at 16 bhp, running slightly rich.

barrell has done several thousand miles since 2009, 30 delli was fitted in 2013, franspeed fitted in 2014
for first 4 years 24 jetex was fitted and driven mainly at 50mph.
with 30 delli it cruised at 55mph.

just completed 400 mile round trip on "A" roads and M ways.

still only cruises at 55mph on 1/3 throttle, slightest head wind it's down to 50mph unless i drop it into 3rd and rev it hard.
slightest downhill and it wants to go over 60mph with virtually no throttle.

the pipe certainly does make it accelerate better but i went for the tourer version so i could cruise at a steady 60mph but it's not happy doing this

and to top it all off only 40 mpg

9 1/2 stone rider, no accessories, 2 stone bag on the back.

your comments would be most welcome

objective is to cruise at 60mph with a top speed of 70mph (well that's as fast as i will go on it)

[lambypolo]

Have you ever been happy with the performance or has it tailed off?

The rings and or bore may be worn. I knew it was time to re-ring my T5 when it wouldn't pull well up a certain hill where I lived at the time.

The early mugello 225s were known for being a bit gutless.

I'd be inclined to whip the top end off, check the rings and maybe see what the port timings are like.

[peejay]

Have you ever been happy with the performance or has it tailed off?

The early mugello 225s were known for being a bit gutless.

I'd be inclined to whip the top end off, check the rings and maybe see what the port timings are like.

i've never been happy with the performance all the time it had the jetex fitted but it has been ultra reliable.

knowing my luck i have the world's slowest ever moggie!

the kit was fitted by me straight out of the box all that time ago and has not been touched since so a look in side and measure up is in order as you say

[foremanbob]

How does it perform in 2nd & 3rd Gears... are you getting plenty power there?

Sounds like you are out of the power range.... with your pipe. Dyno'd at 16BHP should be plenty... Where is the max power being made in the rev range?

Contact Andy Francis and see where he recommends the final drive to be. At 56mph you are only pulling 5300revs....

47 tooth rear or 14 tooth front might be worth a try?

[mickyb]

I think you are running the wrong pipe for the porting on that particular kit. I believe it was designed to run with the ancilloti box and you wont reap the benefits by using the expansion chamber unless you have a bit of porting work done on the barrel. I had one of the original 225's, it was never quick but would sit at 60 all day, that was with the ancilloti box and a 28mm delly, that engine is still running today, as you are probably aware. I did put a JL3 on it once, ran like sh1te and drank fuel. Regards Mike

[Rich Oswald]

Peejay you may remember that I also have an early V1 Mugello 225. I have had it in my GP since 2008 fitted out of the box 30mm phbh and Taffspeed Mk4. Cruised nicely at 60mph and dynoed previously by Martin at Chiselspeed at just shy of 16bhp, using standard GP200 gearbox and sprockets, 18/47 (but not sure whether Indian or Italian). Last year , after approx. 8000 miles I lost a lot of power so took it back to Martin, had a touring tune and a new Asso piston and rings and the power is much better now in fact better than previous, dynoed now at over 17bhp. Martin was thinking he might have to put a packer in to get the port timings right but in fact he was surprised and went the other way and left the base gasket off. He said these early kits were a bit hit and miss but thought mine was one of the better ones. Anyway I am happy with it now and can cruise 60-65mph and top out at 70 which is what you are looking for.

Hope this helps,

Rich'

[paul213]

I have ver 1 mugello 225 as std it was rubbish I couldn't keep up with std p200's it would climb a mountain in 4th with the taffy pipe but ran out of rev's. so i took the dremel to it inlet 153 , trans 123 , exh 178 this made it much better this allowed it to rev to 7000 and on sx gearing gave me 70 flat out and would still pull well with the pipe , have now got the same setup but with a devtour and this gets to 75 and on a good day will pull 8000 rpm, it is a little flat below 4000 rpm so am going to fit an augusto to hopefully just increase the pull out of corners a little. would like to try a little less exh timing but too mean to buy a new piston to reduce the inlet timing when the cylinder gets lowered

[peejay]

hi peeps
thanks for all the replies, really helpfull

i've found the dyno reading:

run 1 - max power 15.4 bhp at 6976.9 rpm. max torque 11.7 ft/lb at 6839.4 rpm

run 2 - max power 15.17 bhp at 7274.5 rpm. max torque 11.12 ft/lb at 6719.4 rpm

to be honest these figures mean nothing to me but i'm told they should be enough to give me the performance i want if the power band is in the right place

[Adam_Winstone]

They are very slow in standard format... ultra reliable but very slow.

Much of this is down to them having very low transfer timing, which is why the packer plate was considered when looking at various tuning options. However, Tino offered these with long-stroke options, which then increases the transfer timing nicely, whereas a barrel tuned for the standard 58mm stroke would become over ported (for low rev touring use).

Unless you look to have a V1 ported or stroked then it will remain slow, regardless of what you do to try to pep it up.

Adam

PS - If you (any of you) have a V1 225 with undamaged bore or porting and want to get rid of it then I'm looking to get hold of one for a 'project' barrel, so please feel to get in touch with me? If you happen to have one of the longer V1 barrels, especially machined to aid stroking, then I'd love to hear from you

[Knowledge]

The figures from the dyno run do seem a bit light, especially the torque. I would have hoped for more than 11.7ftlbs for a road scooter pulling road gearing. You probably need somewhere nearer 14ftlbs, which would be more likely to be achieved with a longer stroke crank.

I have heard that there is a shortage of 60mm cranks at the moment...... Not helpful

[dscscotty]

Hi Pete
I would get the port timings checked, I've seen several mugello's with differing timings, particularly with transfer duration. I recently had one with 115" which had a very weak power delivery and required very low gearing for it keep in the power.

[Adam_Winstone]

^... exactly, 115 degrees is rubbish but this is also the benefit when looking to stroke it

Adam

PS - V1 barrel still wanted if anyone doesn't want to go down the whole 'resolve the poor port timings issues'.

[peejay]

hi peeps
progress is slow on the rebuild of this at the mo but i will report back when finished