LCGB Forums

Just saw this new kit being sold by Chisel speed really looks the business but slightly worried about the lack of a spigot/skirt. Thoughts?

No issues as a long rod would be used

A far as I read it they use a std length rod but it does require a case with plenty of gasket face

a-teamlambretta wrote:No issues as a long rod would be used

What difference would using a long rod make ?
Theres a video of the kit and also an article on sluk which you can get on this thread - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9118

HxPaul wrote:

a-teamlambretta wrote:No issues as a long rod would be used

What difference would using a long rod make ?
Theres a video of the kit and also an article on sluk which you can get on this thread - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9118

Move the piston higher up away from the spigot, TV rod is longer isn't it? .

I have a 64/116 crank in an imola, big packer plate under cylinder, less spigot required and probably run ok without any at all

So, has anyone bought one yet? Apart from the sluk report I’ve seen absolutely nothing apart from the nonsense on the gsf.At 24bhp and 20 torques I’d have expected them to sell like hot cakes, surely they must have sold some over here??

They do look a good option but at £200 more than the competition at the moment and the requisite crank, clutch and CST pipe it needs someone to be brave and get their hand in their pocket. I have used Quattrini stuff (kits, clutches and Exhausts) in the past on Smallframe’s and they have been impressive quality and good bolt on performance. I know lads who have run a spigotless 60mm bore cylinders on them and they have had no issues. Certainly got my attention. I believe they are meant for 116 length rod according to CST video on SLUK (part number contains TV)

Lots of info on GSF if you Speak German

The Quattrini 210 kit has been well thought through & doubtless takes the performance to unprecedented levels for a 'bolt on' kit utilising standard generic small-block crankcases.

The Designer is to be applauded for innovation & not being restricted by convention.

This is the first example that I am aware off that utilises an inlet that is placed precisely where it can best benefit it's function, which is to fill the bottom end with fresh charge! Precisely why all other kits aim the inlet vertically toward the frame tube has baffled me for years, to the extent that I suggested some years ago to the UK manufacturer of a reed valve cylinder that the inlet could be realigned, to which his response: "If you think you can do better...."

He was right, of course, but I feel vindicated in that somebody else has thought outside of the box.....

That aside, the piston with it's design to aid transfer is another feature seen for the first time on a Lambretta kit, yet common enough on V*spa performance cylinders, as is asymmetric/eccentric cylinder finning to balance cooling.

Even the special shape of the piston to avoid seizure in line with the cylinder studs has to be a first for any kit of this kind.

The choice of a long rod is usually beneficial in two stroke power delivery & the benefits here are two-fold in eliminating the need for a spigot, the vulnerable weak spot in any alternative small block kits.

The cost may put people off, but compared with the competition, it may evolve into being the best value kit in terms of power & torque, considering it has only just come to market with precious little time for development of other factors like the exhaust, carburettor & ignition.

Well done to Martin @ Chiselspeed for investing the time & effort into buying into this exciting concept!

Great reply WT1. I did contact Chiselspeed back early on via Facebook and they confirmed that my 61/115 crank would be ok, they said it would probably make more Bhp than their set up but slightly less torque.
My intention was to use a TSR Evo I have here and modify it to suit, I rang them a couple of times before Christmas to try and speak in person to the main man as I was ready to buy but they never came back to me, must just have been very busy on the run up to Christmas.
I’m slightly put off by spending that kind of money on something that to be fair is untried or tested hence why I was enquiring as to if anyone else had one.
As I see it the cylinder has a small lip where the spigot would normally be so centralising shouldn’t be a problem likewise the head is of the drop in design so again not a problem.
The main problem for me, and this is pure speculation would be accelerated lower piston/bore wear due to having no spigot.
Also I’ve just replaced a blown Suzuki piston on my Mugello at a cost of £28. I wonder what the replacement cost of one of these would be? The mind boggles!

There is no reason to believe that the lack of a spigot will accelerate wear. Quite the opposite applies as the traditional spigot is liable to move inwards through transitional distortion during the time the whole engine comes up to operating temperature as it is not a fully circular spigot due to the transfer cut-outs.

I consider that (the lack of a spigot) yet another beneficial feature to the Quattrini kit.

Personally, I consider the kit as 'state of the art' as an off the shelf kit can be & predict that other established kit manufacturers should take note.

If I were in the market for a small block kit, this would be my automatic choice, especially considering there are no frame modifications necessary so a battery tray can remain in place.

For what it's worth, I have another opinion to air:

What would be great to see, but unlikely to occur, would be the Production Class of BSSO homologate this & any other 'off the shelf' kit with compatible exhaust into the running!

What's to lose?

(Admittedly, to artificially keep the playing feed level, there may be the need to consider adding restrictions to any better kits, such as restrictive venturis or even the addition of lead weight, but Kart racing seems to be operating successfully within such parameters.....)

missing lynx wrote:A far as I read it they use a std length rod but it does require a case with plenty of gasket face

this is something to consider, a lot of smallblock engines only have the small transfers, i found this myself on a 200 barrel i have converted to fit on a small block, its only a sill barrel, but when fitted onto the old indian case i was going to use,i could see into the barrel transfer port from the outside, i have purchased a spanish 125 case which has much bigger transfer area and gasket face, buying another case would add to the cost of the conversion, im not knocking the kit though, they look very impressive, and i read about the kit in scootering a lot of thought gone into all aspects.

missing lynx wrote:A far as I read it they use a std length rod but it does require a case with plenty of gasket face

Reading through what Martin of Chiselspeed says in Scootering, he appears to have anticipated problems with the gasket face.

In the event, the "standard Italian Li125 case" they used presented no problems.....

Reading through what Martin of Chiselspeed says in Scootering, he appears to have anticipated problems with the gasket face.

In the event, the "standard Italian Li125 case" they used presented no problems.....

This is the most confusing part; I've read somewhere Italian cases are the least likely to fit. Indian and Spanish ones supposed to be fine. It would be great if someone published gasket face sizes so we can check prior to buying.

I'd have thought the kit would have been designed for a 'standard' Italian 150 case rather than having to buy a Spanish or Indian one. That was the point of the kit, to improve the performance of a bog standard small bore case.

I'd like one.

Raveydavey wrote:This is the most confusing part; I've read somewhere Italian cases are the least likely to fit. Indian and Spanish ones supposed to be fine. It would be great if someone published gasket face sizes so we can check prior to buying.

Are we saying that ALL Spanish and Indian 150 cases are best for this kit, or are we saying that only the Spanish and Indian small block casings that were made from 200 castings are suitable? Let's not assume that ALL Spanish and Indian 150 cases are made from 200 castings. They are not.

I don't really see what the issue is. A quick blast with the ali welder should sort out any discrepancy on any casing.

^... people are trying to determine whether they can fit this to any casings or only some casing. There are plenty of people that will choose a different kit if it transpires that they need to have their casing welded and machined in order to get the standard kit to seal at the gasket face. At the moment there seems to be confusion as to whether this is the case or not.

I thought Chiselspeed made it quite clear that despite the chat on the German forum they successfully fitted a kit to a standard Italian small block without issue.....

I've got a kit but I'm going to get some welding done on an Italian casing. I'm a bit paranoid about gasket seal area so if I'm going down the welding route I may as well not use the Spanish casing I've also got. When you see the cylinder close up then there's a lot of scope to open the transfers, to a point where it almost looks like it was an after thought to purposely block them, maybe they suddenly had the "this ain't gonna fit is it moment". I don't see a point in opening them up to the max as you'll have to taper it down into the casing anyway. I also think you may need to stick to 58 x 116 crank, as 60s and 115 may cause added issues at the top. Inlet manifold may cause issues with proximity to the frame also but great that the manifold exits on the "proper" side. The figures shown by Chis are with a low revving torquey exhaust so it'll be very interesting to see what it does with a race exhaust when they become available.

Another interesting point is that Casa / Rimini are going to make a suitable casing for it, they've already built a £400 crank to suit, gulp.

Yes I think I’m going to shelve my plans to build one, just to much money (for me anyway) to cough up for something that’s untried and tested only to find that there are serious issues 6 months down the line......great idea and I wish them all the best, but I’m out.