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TV 175 Series 1 & 2

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TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Paul Slack » Thu May 15, 2014 5:29 pm

Please note the anoraks corner designed to achieve attention to detail of facts including the history of the model, information maybe used for the main website, so your help and posts will go on to help others. By posting you agree to letting the LCGB use this information for its web site.

Please discuss detail for any Model TV 175 Series 1 & 2.
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby oggie » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:05 pm

hi can anyone out there help me regarding the frame numbers which where modified by innocenti (ridgeback)on the tv 175 ser2
i know the frame numbers started with the prefix 100,001, but does anyone know how many where included and what frame number it went up to?

oggie
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Petec » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:40 pm

I dont think anyone has that answer mate ,there has always been a debate regarding(if there ever was) the recall and the reason regarding the ridgeback ie cut in half and strenghtened because of the increased power of the engine. but no concrete answers
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby torquewrench » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:52 am

If you take the "reliable" sources of data, Vittorio Tessera's Lambretta History, Pete Davies Lambretta Bible, and the British Lambretta Archive, and read them all together:
Tessera refers to a rib welded onto the centre line of the frame, for the first version to October 1959, with no rib on the second version.
Frame numbers start at 100,001.
Pete Davies states more or less the same, but specifies a welded rib from January to October 1959.
Frame numbers start at 100,001.
The BLA shows frame numbers as:
1959 - 100,001 to 108,773.
1959 - 200,001 to 203,261.
1960 - 203,262 to 222,718.

Unfortunately, there is a contradiction, because Davies states that the 100,000 series continued after the removal of the rib, whereas Tessera states the the 200,000 series began when the rib was removed.

However, reading both Tessera and Davies, which are pretty similar as far as the text is concerned, and comparing to BLA data, suggests that the rib was present on frames numbered 100,001 to 108,773, with production ending in October 1959.

What does appear to be the case is that the welded rib was an original manufacturing feature, so I don't know how a recall theory would fit the history of this scooter.
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby oggie » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Hi thanks for the replies very helpful as always, the reason for asking is I have been looking at a tv175 ser2 which appears not to have plate (rib) but the frame numbers start 106*** which would put in the first 1959 run but before it ended. so this could confirm Pete Davies theory is correct. So it looks like there where never as many built as first thought, as always with lambretta a mystery!
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby torquewrench » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:41 pm

One major problem is that the 100,000 frame number series is confusing.

Tessera shows - 100,001 to 108,772 from January to October 1959.
Davies shows - 100,001 to 103,261 in 1959 and 103,262 to 107,464 in 1960.
BLA shows - 100,001 to 108,773 in 1959.
So Tessera and BLA are pretty much in agreement, and Davies numbers are very different.

Then, Tessera and BLA show 200,001 to 203,260 or 203,261 from October to December 59.

As you say, if you have a 106*** without the rib, then Tessera and BLA numbers appear to be incorrect.
It would be interesting to know if we have any owners with frame numbers in the 103,261 to 104,000 range without the rib.

There is clearly something curious when Davies says 103,261 as the last 59 machine, and the others say 203,261 as the last 59 machine.
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby SteveGee » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:14 pm

A question on paint codes for a 59 Tv2
I've requested 2 paint chips / samples for the Tv1 Ivory 8028 and Tv2 Oriente 8049 these are intended for use in the restoration of a recently imported Tv2 which is an early 1959 example frame No' 1007** ( with welded rib / seam ).
The scoot is in original condition other than for the fact it's had a lazy overspray with a rattle can at some point during its time in Italy .
In a number of places the original colour can be seen and when I've offered the 2 samples to the original paint the Tv1 Ivory seems a far closer match than the Oriente 8049 colour.
So my question is can anybody confirm that the earliest run of the Tv2's were painted in the same colour as the Tv1 ??
Even allowing for the paint ageing over 55yrs the colour seems to be far more in line with the Ivory 8028..

Any help would be much appreciated

Cheers
Steve
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Petec » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:44 am

Hi Steve ,we were with you on the ferry back from swizz me mark Stevens melk and truss my TV (the battered looking one) is a real early one and it has a salmon looking colour on the original paint
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Mel K » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:24 pm

Pete, Steveg and stevegee are two different people, Steveg was on the ferry, stevegee was possibly on it too but I don't know .
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby SteveGee » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:42 am

Pete / Mel ..

Sadly it wasn't me on the Ferry ~ The Salmon colour is interesting as when I've removed the Fork cover the original colour behind is different to both samples and if I squint it does have a clay / pink tint to it ~ I'll try and post up a picture
Pete if you've got a picture of yours in the original paint might be useful to compare ~ then you just need to let me know the original paint code ! :)

Steve
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Petec » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:03 am

Will do if I get a chance later .

Here you go

Image
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Petec » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:33 am

Steve hope you can make out the salmon colour in the original paint
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby SteveGee » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:18 pm

See what you mean by the ' Salmon ' Colour Pete - the line below May provide an answer for both of us ? There was a 3rd colour used on the early TV2 175's Beige Rose' would suggest a colour far closer to both of ours than the Orientle Yellow

Taken from the www.scooterdepoca.com site under TV175 11
Some specimens were produced colored in Beige Rosé 8036 probably for the export market. There are reports that some of these have been sold through the normal Italian dealers. It is recommended that color only when it was so originally painted.

Steve
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby STREETSLEEPER » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:16 pm

I THINK I AM DOING SOMETHING WRONG. I THOUGHT THIS MUST BE THE PLACE FOR SUCH A QUESTION, BUT I THINK I´M JUST LATCHING ONTO SOMEONE ELSE´S THREAD.
IF THAT´S THE CASE I APOLOGISE. I HAVE OPENED TOPICS ELSEWHERE, BUT GET SO FEW REPLIES.

ENGINE NO. 175 TV/2 *129098*

Someone told me it was one of the last S2 TV175s built. Can anyone confirm this?

The engine was fitted to an LI 125 S2 frame (125 LI 764842), and although LCGB informs me they were both built in 1960, that's the limit of my knowledge.

I'd just like to know if there's anything particular/different/noteworthy about them?

Thanks all of you...

P.S. Sorry if I originally posted this in the wrong section.
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby roem » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:06 am

torquewrench wrote:One major problem is that the 100,000 frame number series is confusing.

Tessera shows - 100,001 to 108,772 from January to October 1959.
Davies shows - 100,001 to 103,261 in 1959 and 103,262 to 107,464 in 1960.
BLA shows - 100,001 to 108,773 in 1959.
So Tessera and BLA are pretty much in agreement, and Davies numbers are very different.

Then, Tessera and BLA show 200,001 to 203,260 or 203,261 from October to December 59.

As you say, if you have a 106*** without the rib, then Tessera and BLA numbers appear to be incorrect.
It would be interesting to know if we have any owners with frame numbers in the 103,261 to 104,000 range without the rib.

There is clearly something curious when Davies says 103,261 as the last 59 machine, and the others say 203,261 as the last 59 machine.


Hi, I'm just tagging onto this thread (and am new to this so hope I have done this correctly!) as I appear to have a TV 175 Series 2 which is inside the time and frame numbers for being a "ridgeback" but there is absolutely no sign of any "ridge" or "Rib". I noticed there was quite some debate about frame numbers and whether or not Innocenti actually recalled machines for strengthening or not. There also seemed to be some discrepancy as to when the second series 200,001 actually started Late '59 or '60?

My original English registered TV 2 has a frame number 104917 and as I said it definitely has no ridge. All numbers are clear. I also have the green V.E. 60 continuation logbook. The logbook is very clear that this machine was first registered on 4th August 1959. So, unless I've misunderstood the various comments by "torquewrench" and others, then there are indeed some errors in the various data resources records.

Davies states that 1959 production finished with 103261. My 1959 machine being 104917 and first registered in England in August 1959 appears to show this must be wrong?

Also, I think if 104917 has no rib, perhaps this confirms or adds weight to the idea that there must have been a recall? It looks to me as 104917 must have been sent out for sale and registration in June/July 1959 but was never recalled for the cutting and rib welding?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on this from people who are more expert than me. I am currently very carefully restoring this bike with an original Bambini Sidecar and I'd like to get it as correct as possible. Most of it is original and it is clear that it was Oriental Yellow, but I'm not too sure about the colour of some of the rubbers. Is it correct to have all grey cables and rubbers, with a cream rear light rubber, grey footbrake, grey handgrips and black stand feet and black kickstart rubber?

I hope my post and the fact that I appear to have a 104,000 range without the rib is useful in this debate.

Regards
Mark
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby SteveGee » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:52 pm

Try the Scooterdepoca site for a good guide to the correct colour / finish for trims, badges ect I found the detail they provide better than most.
I've posted a link on message further up this page
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby roem » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:13 pm

Hi, does anyone out there have any ideas on my earlier post concerning early TV175 Series 2 Ridgeback's? Specifically, looking at all the info on here I seem to have a frame number which is well within the "Ridgeback" frame numbers but there is no sign of any ridge. So, I'm assuming this is strong evidence that there was a recall and my one was never returned? Any thoughts really appreciated.
Cheers
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby Major tom » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:00 pm

A simple request if anyone can help. I'm after the difference in Cylinder size of the early Tv2 and the later Tv2. I know the later ones are bigger but would like to know the exact sizes of each. Thanks
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby sp1v » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:44 pm

Can anyone help me id an S1 horncast, might be TV1 but not certain, part no is 15050130? I'm aware of 15050220 being listed as TV1 but can't find reference to this one at all. Has seperate grill not one piece, thanks.
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Re: TV 175 Series 1 & 2

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:24 pm

I have a S2 that's being restored at the moment. One of the wheel rims has smaller studs than the other, and I should think it's been a replacement at one time. The studs are round and flat but of lesser diameter than the larger dimpled studs. This is ringing a bell somewhere. Am I right in thinking that it might be from a S1?
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