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Anomalous DL200

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Anomalous DL200

Postby Stevie W » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:10 pm

I have just been offered a DL200 which was imported from Italy in 1989, the bike is totally original and unmolested but it gets interesting and intriguing as it was registered in November 1968, two months before the official January 1969 launch. The frame has an SX150 number but it's definitely a GP frame in its original Yellow Ochre paint and the numbers have not been tampered with. The engine is SX200 and original to the bike.
The bike has plenty of documentation to prove it's authenticity and has been in the current owners possession since importation in 1989. The only explanation for this anomaly I can think of is that this is a pre production model produced for publicity and press launch. Incidentally the official 1969 lambretta calendar produced late 68, features a Yellow Ochre GP200 which may well be the actual bike.
Well Lambretta gurus, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this before I bite the bullet and buy it.
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Rich Oswald » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:12 pm

Interesting to say the least and stranger things have happened in the past. What documentation have you? IMO at the end of the day with proof this may be a very rare scooter however without conclusive evidence it is simply an SX150 and the price you pay may have to relect that. Interested to hear more.

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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Mel K » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:23 pm

It could be a lot of different things , none of which can be confirmed . I'd just decide how much you want it and how much you're willing to pay . Sounds like a nice find regardless of any numbers .
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Stevie W » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:52 pm

Rich Oswald wrote:Interesting to say the least and stranger things have happened in the past. What documentation have you? IMO at the end of the day with proof this may be a very rare scooter however without conclusive evidence it is simply an SX150 and the price you pay may have to relect that. Interested to hear more.

Rich'


The current owner has quite a bit of paperwork and has attempted to get to the bottom of it with little success. However although the frame has an SX150 number , it is not an SX frame it is definitely a GP frame plus it has some unusual electrics fitted to it. The seller is genuine as is the bike, it's just being able to exactly pigeon hole the bike.
As a matter of interest the price I have been quoted to buy it is well below the going price of any SX200 or Italian GP200 but in the price range of a decent SX150.
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby NorthernJordan » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:06 pm

If it's date of first registration is backed up by the original Italian documents, then it's a very intriguing scooter. How much more that makes it "worth" be that monitory or purely interest is up to the individual.
However, if it is just the UK logbook that states that I would suggest that is more of dating mistake?

Surely if it's a GP it will have GP frame number regardless of it's date of registration?
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby coaster » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:13 pm

Stevie W wrote:................ However although the frame has an SX150 number , it is not an SX frame it is definitely a GP frame .


How do you know it is a GP frame? the main difference is the height of the fork tube but if it is a prototype then it is probable that they would have cut a S3 frame down I would have thought.

Sounds like the price is right though, I would be tempted if it were me 8-)
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby eddie15b » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:15 pm

some pictures would be nice....

frame and engine number wise you could confirm the november 1968 status
by checking out the "OFFICIAL" production records from innocenti

if its an October 1968 SX 150 frame the numbers should be 778821 - 779996
if its a November 1968 SX 150 frame the numbers should be 779996 - 780444

engine wise its a bit more complicated but ive a 1968 SX 200 and the engine
number is 270 more than the frame number so taking that into account
with the frame numbers from innocenti.....

if its an October 1968 engine the numbers should be 849996(+270) - 850296(+270)
if its a November 1968 engine the numbers should be 850296(+270) - 850626(+270)

all of this is very "ballparkish" but should give you a start on the scooters 1968 heritage

hope this helps
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Rich Oswald » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:20 am

NorthernJordan wrote:If it's date of first registration is backed up by the original Italian documents, then it's a very intriguing scooter. How much more that makes it "worth" be that monitory or purely interest is up to the individual.
However, if it is just the UK logbook that states that I would suggest that is more of dating mistake?

Surely if it's a GP it will have GP frame number regardless of it's date of registration?


Not necessarily Jordan. If it's a pre production model for advance publicity for the GP then Innocenti probably didn't want to issue the new GP numbering sequence in advance so merely used an SX 150 number for simplicity. Stranger things have happened there.

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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Rich Oswald » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:23 am

Stevie W wrote:
Rich Oswald wrote:Interesting to say the least and stranger things have happened in the past. What documentation have you? IMO at the end of the day with proof this may be a very rare scooter however without conclusive evidence it is simply an SX150 and the price you pay may have to relect that. Interested to hear more.

Rich'


The current owner has quite a bit of paperwork and has attempted to get to the bottom of it with little success. However although the frame has an SX150 number , it is not an SX frame it is definitely a GP frame plus it has some unusual electrics fitted to it. The seller is genuine as is the bike, it's just being able to exactly pigeon hole the bike.
As a matter of interest the price I have been quoted to buy it is well below the going price of any SX200 or Italian GP200 but in the price range of a decent SX150.


Have you tried contacting Vittorio Tessera and asking him about it. He just may be able to shed some light on it.

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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby NorthernJordan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:41 am

Rich Oswald wrote:
NorthernJordan wrote:If it's date of first registration is backed up by the original Italian documents, then it's a very intriguing scooter. How much more that makes it "worth" be that monitory or purely interest is up to the individual.
However, if it is just the UK logbook that states that I would suggest that is more of dating mistake?

Surely if it's a GP it will have GP frame number regardless of it's date of registration?


Not necessarily Jordan. If it's a pre production model for advance publicity for the GP then Innocenti probably didn't want to issue the new GP numbering sequence in advance so merely used an SX 150 number for simplicity. Stranger things have happened there.

Rich'


I get what you are saying... But if it's a genuine 200 would they not have used a SX200 frame No.?
Is 2 months prior to launch not the kind of time where they would be going into full production and building up some stock?
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Rich Oswald » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:20 pm

NorthernJordan wrote:
Rich Oswald wrote:
NorthernJordan wrote:If it's date of first registration is backed up by the original Italian documents, then it's a very intriguing scooter. How much more that makes it "worth" be that monitory or purely interest is up to the individual.
However, if it is just the UK logbook that states that I would suggest that is more of dating mistake?

Surely if it's a GP it will have GP frame number regardless of it's date of registration?


Not necessarily Jordan. If it's a pre production model for advance publicity for the GP then Innocenti probably didn't want to issue the new GP numbering sequence in advance so merely used an SX 150 number for simplicity. Stranger things have happened there.

Rich'


I get what you are saying... But if it's a genuine 200 would they not have used a SX200 frame No.?
Is 2 months prior to launch not the kind of time where they would be going into full production and building up some stock?


I just think that for advertising they would have used any frame available.
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby NorthernJordan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:39 pm

Rich Oswald wrote:
Not necessarily Jordan. If it's a pre production model for advance publicity for the GP then Innocenti probably didn't want to issue the new GP numbering sequence in advance so merely used an SX 150 number for simplicity. Stranger things have happened there.

Rich'


I get what you are saying... But if it's a genuine 200 would they not have used a SX200 frame No.?
Is 2 months prior to launch not the kind of time where they would be going into full production and building up some stock?[/quote]

I just think that for advertising they would have used any frame available.[/quote]

Maybe, I'll be honest I've re-read the post and the questions make far more sense! Weird bike if it is in original paint, I know the Spanish used to modify and change their own Lambrettas to make them look like newer models. So that can't be ruled out? But a Gp is quite a drastic change!
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby TurboTrev » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:58 pm

Rich Oswald wrote: Have you tried contacting Vittorio Tessera and asking him about it. He just may be able to shed some light on it. Rich'


Very good suggestion, that's what I would do.
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby martin1310 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:38 am

i think this is the same bike that some one was trying to convince me it was original factory bike.if it is the same one the engine bump stop as been cut off. in my opinion if it's the same one it is a sx1500 frame with a 200 engine.(the first dl/gp200 was january 1969) and there was only one made in 1969
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby martin1310 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:42 am

sorry meant to say only one made in January 1969
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Stevie W » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:07 am

martin1310 wrote:i think this is the same bike that some one was trying to convince me it was original factory bike.if it is the same one the engine bump stop as been cut off. in my opinion if it's the same one it is a sx1500 frame with a 200 engine.(the first dl/gp200 was january 1969) and there was only one made in 1969

I suspect that it is the same bike as it has no bumpstop.
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby martin1310 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:06 am

Stevie W wrote:
martin1310 wrote:i think this is the same bike that some one was trying to convince me it was original factory bike.if it is the same one the engine bump stop as been cut off. in my opinion if it's the same one it is a sx1500 frame with a 200 engine.(the first dl/gp200 was january 1969) and there was only one made in 1969

I suspect that it is the same bike as it has no bumpstop.

i think so stevie mate
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby martin1310 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:13 am

but after saying that the bike has a value at the end of the day it is a sx 150 dressed up as a gp with a 200 engine in it mate it all depends on what he want for it now
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Re: Anomalous DL200

Postby Stevie W » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:54 pm

I think that I'll give it a miss, after all I've got 4 GP's at the moment.
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