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Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

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Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:59 pm

Posting this as a bit of a "how to" for anyone that was thinking of a full 12v dc system for the Variatronic.

This is the basic outline.

The yellow/white wire isn't needed, it can be left unused.

The red/white wire is used as one of the feeds to the Wassell rectifier.

The other is feed is taken from the earth wire to the stator, this earth needs to be undone and a new wire connected and securely fed out from the stator to the rectifier.



This will give you the two ac feeds needed to connect to the Wassell rectifier.


That's the basic outline of how to go about it.



Probably better for me to add a little info to try to better show how I am going about it, this is a little more involved.

First I remove the wire tie that secures all the wires and sleeving.

Image

Then I removed the resin that secures and insulates all the wires and the wire tie at the post. Slowly with a fine pointed tungsten burr and a mini drill.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h32 ... vwtty0.jpg

I cut the resin back till I got down to the black plastic
Image

Next I carefully slid a Stanley knife blade between the plastic and the resin covered soldered wires to remove the last of the resin and free the wires.

Image

You only need to free the two red/white and yellow/white wires.

The red and blue wires and their connections are best left alone, these are the ignition feeds and you will need to be extra careful around the LT coil as the thin wires are easily broken.

I've removed some more resin around the LT coil just to show how careful you need to be here.

Image

If you look you can see a thin wire following the bobbin edge down to earth and if you look just a few mm to the right of the blue wire theres another slightly thicker wire which goes into the resin and connects to the red wire.
These two connections if your clumsy could easily be broken or cut through. More easily as some will use a large soldering iron to remove old resin from stators or a large cutter so extra care needs to be taken, or maybe best just stay away from that edge of the LT coil.
The earth wire to the back plate needs to be unsoldered.
Image

I use the pick in place as above and a touch with a 35-50 watt soldering iron is enough to remove the wire.

Image

Remove the single soldered red/white wire from the single lighting coil wire.
Image
And put a pice of tape on that wire to indicate that is the single wire, I used red tape.
Then remove the yellow/white wire as its not needed.

So you now have this.

Image

Ignition wires intact and three free ends of the lighting coils, one with a taped end.

This post is being uploaded as the work is being done so this is a work in progress.

Please wait till it's finished before replying thanks.

Solder the two free coil ends from the yellow/white wire, this double connection will be secured back under the resin without the yellow/white wire or any other feed wire.
Image

Next solder a feed wire to the one free coil wire this is the one that was taped up.

Image

One wire soldered back on I've used thin walled Purple 32/0.2mm wire, as I just need a wire that's recognisable from the other stator wires.

Next solder a wire (another purple) to the original lighting coils earth wire.

Image

I think it's best to be heat shrunk at the connection.as in the next picture also showing how best to route the added wire to get it into the best position to exit the stator and avoid being trapped or caught.

Viewed from one side showing the heat shrink soldered connection.

Image

And from the other side showing the routing of the added wire to the stator loom.
Image

I need to sleeve the wires, add a wire tie connectors and some resin next.

To remove the resin I used a small tungsten it's only 3mm wide at its widest point with a variable speed cordless mini tool. This allowed me to get a very slow removal of the resin without any accidents.
Here's a picture...
Image

next secure the wires and sleeving to the post. The wire securing post is visible just below the sleeving.

Image

Next pull the sleeving down make sure all the wires and soldered connections are where they should be.

Image

Then secure the sleeving to the post with a wire tie.

Image

Image

Next apply resin all around the soldered wires around the end of the sleeving and the plastic post to secure and seal the connections from the elements.

Image

All that's left is to attach the terminals to the ends of the four wires and it's finished.
Last edited by Captain Pugwash on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby dave411 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Doesnt the Varitronic come with a rectifier to give you DC ?
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:16 pm

This is how I've gone about the conversion making sure all the wires are fairly neatly back in the original sleeving, but as I said the conversion basicly needs a new wire adding to the original earth wire from the lighting coils. It needs the yellow/white wire just not used or removing as I've done.

Do remember that it also needs a good secure route for that extra added wire to follow without being trapped or damaged and safely make its way out of the stator to the Wassel rectifier.

Hope this little bit of info is some help to anyone thinking of doing similar, if you spot any errors in my post above you will have to excuse me as it was written and posted as the work was being carried out, so this is a warts and all Variatronc conversion.

I don't run a Variatronic stator but I'm told the first one I converted is running well without any issues to date.

If you attempt this conversion , do take your time as mistakes could be costly.

Good luck, Mark.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:18 pm

dave411 wrote:Doesnt the Varitronic come with a rectifier to give you DC ?


Full DC ?
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Wack » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:54 pm

The reg does have a DC output but it is only a trickle charge for a battery . With this system you have direct lights like a motorcycle so no dimming ,a decent horn and coupled with a Beedspeed ignition switch you can have power for EGT gauges etc on the first click(ignition) of the key. Of all the electronic systems I have fitted I still prefer the Varitronic, as I'm still running one I fitted in 2007 compared to countless other systems I've repaired or changed, the only downside is the price and poor lights at lower revs but the full DC conversion solves this.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:22 pm

You were right Wack on the original lighting wires, One wires Red/White and the others a Yellow wire. So in my above post if I've written Yellow/White wire it should actually be read as Yellow Wire.
Both the red/white and yellow wires are Clearly visible in this photo......

Image
:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Wack » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:36 pm

Ah they have changed the wiring then as they usually have a colour with a trace ie red/ black, yellow/ white and red/ white. Image
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby dave411 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:03 pm

Ah,I see now.So do you need to run a battery with this conversion?
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Dimitrios_231 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:27 pm

Thank you for this epic post Mr.Captain,
I'll try this conversion sometime on a Casatronic,Parmakit.
Thanks again ;)
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby byron » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:25 pm

yeah, thanks for this.
the lack of decent DC has always put me off variatronics
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Jamjo » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:08 pm

Thanks Mark , another great thread to follow well detailed . Anyone know how I can save this post incase there is problem and its lost . Might be good for future reference
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:20 pm

byron wrote:yeah, thanks for this.
the lack of decent DC has always put me off variatronics


I've fitted a couple of standard Variatronics to other people's scooters but I've never tried one myself for very long, that was partly because of the AC bias and the lowish dc trickle charge, although I did like the simplified ignition circuit on the stator (there seems to be less to go wrong). The main thing I did like, was the lack of a pickup meaning there is less on the stator to fail plus I would expect a more simplified circuit inside the CDI as there isnt a second feed to it from the pickup.

I would guess the ignition side of the Variatronic chould prove to be more reliable than a Ducati/AF/SIL/BGM type electronic ignition.

Plus with lead free low octane fuels sold at the pump these days, the built in ignition curve could prove to be useful over the standard curve of the basic CDI of a Ducati system.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:31 pm

Jamjo wrote:Thanks Mark , another great thread to follow well detailed . Anyone know how I can save this post incase there is problem and its lost . Might be good for future reference
James


Hi mate,
If you've got a iPad this this is what I do.

Go to the first post and click on or touch quote at the top of the thread, then on the text touch the screen and the blue flashing cursor appears touch the cursor again and you get three options, touch the option "select all" then select "copy".

Now open notes on the iPad and "paste" it into notes. it will save the links to the photos and all the text and it's kept sepeate from the LCGB forum as a separate record.

If you have a tablet or laptop it's most likely done in a similar way.

Hope this makes sense and helps
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby dave411 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:58 pm

So,does this conversion need a battery?
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Eden » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:14 pm

mark your photo skills are getting much better :)


great detailed post 8-)
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Nelly » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:04 pm

Good post Mark.
I've been wanting to have a good look at these stators, I just haven't had a donor plate to dissect. I've only had a visual look at one recently at Scotty's.
Looking at the pics the yellow is tapped off to give a feed from 2 coils. You are removing the yellow and taking the supply from all 3 coils in series, doing away with the one coil used to supply a trickle charge DC? There's just one pair of cables in the same way a standard stator is converted, across the series connected coils?
Is the varitronic regulator is now redundant, or are you using it to supply the ignition coil? Is the variable ignition curve from the coil or the regulator?
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Wack » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:43 pm

The varitronic reg is replaced with a Wassel regulator only. The CDI stays the same as it controls the ignition.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Dimitrios_231 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:04 pm

I agree ;)
The variable curve comes from the coil (or CDI), Blue stator (earth) and Red/Black (ignition) cables go to the coil (or CDI)
The regulator from the kit is redundant,you have to use a 'modern' Wassell or an 'older' solid state rectifier with a heatsink and 12V zener diode,
two Purples (or whatever colour you choose) connect to the two Wassell Yellows,
main loom power cables (purple/brown/pink original) to the Wassell Red,
Wassell Black earth.

The way I see it,
White/Red which used to supply the trickle charge from coil,let's say No3,is no longer needed,
Yellow/White used to supply the current for the lammy lights/horn,had coils No1 and No2 connected in series,
the whole set up is now modified to have in series coils No1,No2 and No3,one Purple comes from No1 the other one from No3,
I'm not sure,but I have a feeling that the output power will also be improved,fingers crossed.
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Dimitrios_231 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:40 pm

I started...
thank you again Captain ;)

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Variatronic "Wassell" conversion

Postby Captain Pugwash » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:33 pm

Just in case there are any differences in the way the variatronics three coils are wound, you are looking for three coils in series.

The way this will should look on the Variatronic is the first lighting coil winds in one direction, the next or second lighting coil is wound in the opposite direction, and the last or third is wound in the same direction as the first.
On each lighting coil The first winding (or the inside winding) of each coil will connect to the last or out side of the next coil. Two of the coils wound in one direction 1 and 3 coils. Number 2 coil wound in the opposite direction.
With all three coils wound and connected in series you will end up with an inside winding (the original earth) connected to a feed to the Wassel on the first coil, and an outside winding on the third coil connected to the other feed to the Wassel rectifier.
This is called phasing as each alternate magnet has the opposite polarity, having each coil wound as above, first coil clockwise next coil anti then the next coil clockwise joining each coil inside to outside makes the current from the three coils all flow current in the same direction. This allows current to flow in one direction at a time, as each next magnet crosses the coils the polarity reverses creating an ac current.
If the coils are joined out of phase there will be a reverse or back flow of current fighting against the next coil, cancelling out as much voltage/current as it produces. And this out of phase state will most likely damage the lighting coils.

The difference on some types of stators is that all the lighting coils are all wound in the same direction but then on this type of stator the outside windings join to each other and the inside windings join to each other from coil to coil. This has the same effect giving the correct phasing and allows current to flow in one direction at a time through all the lighting coils.
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