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DVLA cock up

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DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Tue May 14, 2019 2:12 pm

I guess now and again someone has got to get problems with bureaucracy ,this time its my turn.!
The following is part of the reply to DVLA.
Dear sir /madam
"Being regularly chased up by my insurance company who have issued me with temporary cover note for a Lambretta scooter imported from Spain by virtue of its frame number.I phoned again to enquire as to progress in issuing an age related number ,to be told that my application is rejected on the grounds that the “Letter Of Authenticity” issued by the “Lambretta Club Of Great Britain” is not on the list of approved organisations accepted for the purpose.
This is seems very strange as I have first hand knowledge that many imported scooters have been authenticated by the LCGB, who are recognised body.
Indeed when pointed by yourselves to your .Gov site listing (V765-1) I find the LCGB is most definitely listed.
I now have the inconvenience of re-submitting the original paperwork and further delay in your processing. (10 working days minus weekends= 2.5 weeks)
Could you please furnish an explanation as to what has really gone wrong with my application?.
At original posting the last week in April ,I also submitted payment for the road tax to start from the 1st May ,but seems this month will be wasted in the mess of bureaucracy".
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby Rich Oswald » Tue May 14, 2019 6:31 pm

Hi mate,

I will try and answer a few of the points made in this statement.

1. Insurance is not a requirement to obtain a first registration of an imported vehicle and can be done when taxing it after the new reg' No is received, however if the scooter is dated as manufactured post January 1979 (40 years old and rolling) and is not classed as a Vehicle Of Historic Interest then in this instance can be Insured and pre-paid for road tax along with the V55/5 application.

2. There is no such thing as an approved list of organisations for issuing authentications.

3. There IS a list of approved organisations as pointed out, to process V765 applications, which can be found as a PDF on the DVLA website and LCGB most certainly IS on the list however this is nothing to do with Authentications (or what are commonly called Dating Letters)

I am sorry that my Dating Letter has not been accepted and wish to point out that this is the very first time that this reason has been given as a rejection, however unreasonable rejections are becoming commonplace and very frustrating for both the applicant and the issuer.

Hope that this helps a little,

Richard Oswald
LCGB Registrar
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Wed May 15, 2019 5:10 pm

Thanks Rich
The Servetta in question is 1982, and to kill two birds etc I had it MOTd and insured to enable registration and tax in one.The problem with the telephone enquiry service is that they will not resolve specific problems ,but read over the phone the text of the rejection letter.I will forward the points they raise.
Because there seems to be inconsistency in their processing I will endeavor to forward the eventual successful application form when it is accepted and hope this may serve as a reference for future applicants.
Your point re frustration would apply to applicant and issuer ,only if the issuer gives a dam...which I doubt .Otherwise they would tackle the cause of inconsistent application rejection.
Hoping this experience might eliminate future LCGB member's application problems.
Regards
Mark
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Fri May 17, 2019 10:18 pm

To whom it may concern
In the interests of LCGB members who might want to beat any changes to the current rules that Brexit might change regarding import /duty /EU concessions etc can we work to formulate a foolproof checklist to streamline applications? By working through any reason given to decline an application we might find the right formula.
Although I want to get my registration through with the minimum of fuss, I am curious as to the reasons some members have encountered random problems whilst others have breezed it ,I put it down to the individuals that process these applications at DVLA interpreting the rules inconsistently.



After reading all published advice and completing the form I quote my original letter accompanying the completed application form to DVLA:

Dear Sir / Madam
Please find enclosed V55/5 form for the issue of an age related number plate.
I attach the following:
Cheque £55 for registration fee.
Cheque £43 for road tax.
Insurance cover note for frame number SX-200-563xxx(Original) .
HMRC letter with Nova reference number for this vehicle SX-200-563xxx.(Original)
MOT certificate for this vehicle SX-200-563xxx.(Original)
Vehicle dating certificate issued by the Lambretta Club Great Britain. (Original)
Photocopied letters confirming my name and address: -Postal Voting Card.,Council Tax Bill, Bank letter ,British Gas letter..NHS letter….Photocard driving licence…..Portsmouth City OAP bus pass.
I trust the form is filled in correctly and look forward to getting the scooter on the road.
Yours sincerely



Following on from the last post, here is the letter of rejection from DVLA.

Dear ……
Vehicle Identification Number:SX200563xxx
I have to reject your first registration application(s) because of the reasons given below:
“You have not enclosed your original non-UK registration certificate or export certificate.In order to register an imported vehicle you must provide the original non-UK registration certificate or export certificate,photocopies are not acceptable.If the original document is not available, you must send a letter of explanation and any other import/proof of purchase documents you have that relate to the vehicle (e.g.shipping documents ,invoices) together with evidence of the vehicle’s date of manufacture.Date of manufacture evidence must come from the vehicle manufacturer.If the vehicle manufacturer is no longer in existence or is unable to provide dating evidence we will consider accepting dating evidence from an alternative reliable source such as a vehicle owners club or enthusiasts club.Details of some vehicle owners clubs can be found in the list of vehicle owners club (v765/1) which is available from http://www.goc.uk/vehicle-registration/old vehicles.
Your application(s) and supporting documents are enclosed.If you wish to re-apply please return your original application(s) amending the date of first registration if required,and the correct documents with this letter in the enclosed envelope (please ensure you affix the correct postage for size and weight)
For further information go to http://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration
Yours sincerely "

T Morgan



Please note that when this text was read to me over the phone by the person fielding enquiries,I put it that the import / documents had already been satisfied by virtue a HMRC letter with Nova certification.This Nova implies that import documentation requirement has been met and further invites me to proceed with Registration and Tax .This seemed to make sense and so her emphasis was then given to the probable reason for rejection was that I hadn't satisfied the Date of Manufacture evidence requirement and that LCGB was not listed as the reliable source.



I have written back returning my original documentation with the following :


Dear T Morgan ,sir / madam


I am disappointed to receive my application returned as I believe I have completed the form with all known information .I am at a loss to understand what further information you need.
I re-submit the original form and documents with only this letter explaining the circumstances of my possession.
If this application again fails could you please be more specific for the reason(s)?

Since buying the scooter February 2014 ,which came together with the accompanying Nova letter detailing the scooters identity,I have returned the vehicle to a roadworthy condition and had it MOT tested, insured on the frame number and planning on riding the scooter.
I have no other documents pertaining to its previous existence in Spain or import / export paperwork other than the HM Customs letter linking the frame number ,make/model ,with Nova reference (NOVA14P713326). The Nova document clears the vehicle for application to register and tax with yourselves (DVLA) .This document accompanied my original application .

As I had included the original Dating letter from the LCGB ,why is this not acceptable as a reliable source? For you have singled out the requirement to re-supply dating evidence but are apparently satisfied with the other ten documents that were included in my original application.

Yours sincerely



I suspect others have had similar problems but not reported their experiences, so with the benefit of co-operation we might eliminate future problems.

Best Regards
Mark (solostax)
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:23 pm

Today (5 June) finally received age related number and V5C .Considering my application was posted on 27 April the total turnaround time from posting to receipt was 40 days.
Taking into account their erroneous rejection of the initial application and the target processing time of 10 working days ,then factoring in the non countable weekend days, I still consider the DVLA service to be poor.
If the justification of a minimum of 10 working days to process an application is sheer volume of demand then surely that situation also justifies an increase of human intervention to cater for it.After all ,the DVLA is a multi billion pound turnover organisation whose services are not likely to diminish.They are the money making gold mine of any current government.All the while they can provide sub standard service with impunity there will be no motive to improve.
The fact that the cost of one months insurance premium,one months MOT validity and one months road tax has been wasted in bureaucratic process is an insult to the situation if ones tax,insurance,and MOT were to expire for a month!.
In this computerised age the revenue from registered vehicles must be very predictable and with minimum human intervention vast sums are generated.If however a sideline licensing process happens not be the routine "run of the mil" normal business ,(and god forbid,) needs actual human monitoring ,the system reverts back to a worse method that we use to enjoy.Those days when you could take an application to an office ,speak and interact with a human ,resolve there and then most of the reasons for the (now automatic) rejection /delays are gone.
Rant over.
Am feeling better now.
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby Digger » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:16 pm

The problems invariably occur when humans get involved.

That said, talking to the humans at the DVLA invariably speeds up the process.
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:10 pm

OK Digger thanks for your input.I presume you've had success resolving a problem over the phone.
Whilst I agree that a human made a mistake and it was probably a different human that rectified that fault, its still annoying that I have had no acknowledgement or indication that this fault has been recognised and action taken to prevent a recurrence for other applicants.
Personally I don’t need an apology ,but an acknowledgement that a mistake has been made which through better staff training might not be repeated. Monopolies without accountability can result in shoddy service ,at what point does this become unacceptable to the paying public.?
On researching online I have inadvertently opened up a hornet’s nest of examples of .Gov admin staff making mistakes ,some apparently serious, but as I have not asked for any to be substantiated these should be channeled to someone willing to take up the subject with the relevant authorities.
Human nature decrees mistakes will be made and everyone is entitled to make them occasionally ,but there is evidence that the quality of service is becoming consistently inconsistent.
I don't want to make “bashing the DVLA” a crusade but simply believe we the paying public deserve a decent service that offers value.
If the admin fee (£55) represents an accurate costing to process an application ,I would expect that DVLA human processor to be fully conversant with their rules ,after all it's not as if they call upon staff from different departments when they get busy,or do they? perhaps the “Tea Lady” lends a hand or the “bored out of his wits” young man sitting at the “Application to register a non-GB driving licence (form D9) “ desk fills in now and again.

I have thought about the motive for the "good will gesture” offered by the Govt via DVLA regarding the concession to exempt Tax and MOT for 40 year old “historic “ vehicles.On the face of it seems to be very generous.However it was put to me that the envisaged cost of human staffing at DVLA to resolve the probable mounting of enquiries regarding ,amongst other arguments, the difficulty of MOT compliance,outweighed the potential revenue.The canny ,instead bowed to (their cost saving )magnanimous decision to forgo the usual fees.Has anyone got a different view?
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby sunrisemac » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:50 pm

When I rebuilt my dl150 it took me 5 1/2 months to get an age related plate, for a 1971 imported scooter that had been previously registered in the UK in 1978, due to people not listening to the facts, glad you got yours sorted eventually.
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby Rich Oswald » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:21 am

I have honestly never had one take more than two weeks or three with an inspection, for a first reg'.

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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:27 pm

OK Rich ,I must have been the unlucky one!..Prior to submitting my application I had seen some comments where things had not gone smoothly so took great pains to get it right the first time.As I had planned to ride in to the recent Hayling Island meet I believed I had given enough time to finalise the formalities ,this then was another disappointment.
Although you hadn't come across long delays like mine I suspect there may have been some hiccups not reported ,or the applicants had enlisted the services of the few experts advertising in Scootering? With hindsight, perhaps I should have taken that route.!
I shared this experience in the hope that others might be forewarned.Also I am curious as to what changes (if any) might happen regarding the import regulations / customs duty etc when the country "Brexits".If like me people are spurred on to buy imports or complete registration now rather than risk a more (expensive) bureaucratic process the time element is narrowing.
Despite feeling A1 fit ,my age will now limit the potential available days being able to ride my Lambretta ,the DVLA cock up has robbed me of 30.
What I am grateful for is the LCGB membership advice,encouragement etc without which continued Lambretta ownership might prove impractical..
Sincere thanks to all that have helped and the unsung heroes (the Committee) for glueing it all together.
PS I change the default font size as reading small print on my phone is difficult..
Regards
Mark
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby JETEX » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:40 am

Mine took 6 months to register. The jobsworth lady at the DVLA made it harder than it needed to be. She insisted that my scooter was already registered and that mine was a 'ringer' and threatened to have the Police pick it up and crush it !. A very long story which involved the LCGB,BLA, Stolen Vehicle Unit of the local Police and a very kind member on here with Spanish connections then ensued. The Police officer dealing with the matter let slip that the other 'registered' scooter was in the south of England. Eventually, the lady at the DVLA admitted that their concern was with the other scooter, not mine, and so they issued my C-plate registration. They are difficult to deal with.
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby solostax » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:50 pm

Hi Jetex
Interesting problem with your registration.Raises a few concerns as it implies someone had pre-cloned your frame number.
Because it took a long time to resolve do you think the DVLA could have done better? What action could have streamlined the process?
Did the Police get involved?
If cloning is an issue an unexpected import purchaser is all the more vulnerable.Bad news indeed to find out at DVLA registration.
Happy to hear it was finally resolved.
Regards
Mark
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Re: DVLA cock up

Postby JETEX » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:03 pm

I bought a frame off a well known and respected dealer. I built it up into a scooter and sent off for the registration. I think it was about March at the time. I thought there might be some confusion over the frame prefixes as it was pointed out to me by Rich Oswald and Pete Davies ( British Lambretta Archive ) that they could be confusing Spanish, Indian or Italian frame numbers and that the prefix was important. The lady at the DVLA was adamant that the prefix and frame number were already registered with them and that they had been in touch with the 'owner'. She said that their fraud department wouldn't even look into it until the September so that's why she suggested that I contact my local Police to speed things up. One of the guys in our club is a retired Roads Policing Inspector and he put me in touch with an Officer in that department who was very helpful, although the DVLA refused to speak to him. At one point she said that she would give me a digit to stamp on my frame to distinguish it from the other one. I refused this as it would take the originality off my frame and told her to get the other guy to stamp his as mine is the genuine article. Eventually, she admitted to their concern over the other scooter and I suppose the guy got a knock on his door. He's either just made up a frame number not expecting the original to turn up, or copied mine when he saw the frame at the parts fair ?. Incidentally, I never told the DVLA that I built it from a frame or I might have got a 'Q' plate. I told them that it was a complete scooter that I'd had for years and finally got around to restoring and that the documents had been lost in a house move.
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