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EXOL OIL

Technical help for Series one, two and three Lambrettas. Models include the Li, Li Special, TV, SX, GP, Serveta and API/SIL models

Re: EXOL OIL

Postby bsso78 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:46 am

I use fully biodegradable second hand chip fat at 3.65% and recently completed a round trip to Greggs over the road flat out all the way there and back. Ran faultlessly. I think that’s all the proof needed.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:27 pm

This debate could run & run with every Barrie, Gary, Harry & Larry chipping in as above...... ;)

However, to qualify my own experiences of using Exol Optima @ 2% in various tuned engines ranging from Rapido to TS1's, all with good/rebuilt cranks & well filtered air to the carburettor there has not been an issue.

From what I have seen & read in this debate, I would be extremely cautious in using the same mix in an RB kitted engine, though my automatic preference is to try & filter the intake air, though I realise the potential problems in ensuring that.

There are two stroke oils that I would not use, & others that I would. I would even go as far as saying that there can be marked differences between oils stated as air cooled specific & others that may be "all rounders" but that is only a measure of my caution.

At this point in time, from my own experiences & involvement with quite a few engines, I cannot 'rubbish' Exol Optima in conjunction with a good Super Unleaded, preferably with adequately filtered air. With tuned engines, other than RB's of which I have no hands on experience, it has been successfully used @ 50:1. :)
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Hat » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:35 pm

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:This debate could run & run with every Barrie, Gary, Harry & Larry chipping in as above...... ;)

However, to qualify my own experiences of using Exol Optima @ 2% in various tuned engines ranging from Rapido to TS1's, all with good/rebuilt cranks & well filtered air to the carburettor there has not been an issue.

From what I have seen & read in this debate, I would be extremely cautious in using the same mix in an RB kitted engine, though my automatic preference is to try & filter the intake air, though I realise the potential problems in ensuring that.

There are two stroke oils that I would not use, & others that I would. I would even go as far as saying that there can be marked differences between oils stated as air cooled specific & others that may be "all rounders" but that is only a measure of my caution.

At this point in time, from my own experiences & involvement with quite a few engines, I cannot 'rubbish' Exol Optima in conjunction with a good Super Unleaded, preferably with adequately filtered air. With tuned engines, other than RB's of which I have no hands on experience, it has been successfully used @ 50:1. :)


good summary, and that's all any of us can say - based on our own experience
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Kev Fox » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:49 pm

The only issue I have had with the Exol Optima Racing is gummed up rings a couple of times. I put this down to not pushing the scoot to its full potential as you would a race scoot. I do some long faster rides but also some around town stuff too. Had thought of switching to Exol semi synthetic but unsure now. The internet can be a great source of information but equally confusing with so many products and differing points of view.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Meds » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:43 pm

After reading this post i decided to take everyone’s advice.
So tried it without 2 stroke - and Exol is much better.
Tried chip fat - that blocked my arteries and bunged my ring
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:38 pm

Kev Fox wrote:The only issue I have had with the Exol Optima Racing is gummed up rings a couple of times. I put this down to not pushing the scoot to its full potential as you would a race scoot. I do some long faster rides but also some around town stuff too. Had thought of switching to Exol semi synthetic but unsure now. The internet can be a great source of information but equally confusing with so many products and differing points of view.


Like you I used the fully synth Optima oil from Exol. I think you're right. You need to push the engine pretty hard to get the benefit. But really you shouldn't have to do that unless you really do go everywhere flat out. I wouldn't bother with the semi. I'm not sure about it and have gone back to Groundsman myself.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Scooterdude » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:13 am

Scooterdude wrote:I’ve just started using Exol fully synthetic at 4% as a sort of experiment really more than anything else, my thinking is most people seem to run this oil at 3 or even 2% and complain about ring sticking.

Judging by the pictures above 3 or 2% is clearly not enough oil and apart from the excessive wear obviously there will be a lot more heat generated, so I’m wondering could this excessive heat be over cooking the oil to the point of turning it into a thick tar like substance hence the ring sticking and blocked ports etc? is that plausible, I’ve no idea.

One thing I have noticed though with this Exol oil is the same as one of the above posters has remarked and that is the engine seems to have a very harsh edge to it all of a sudden, something it didn’t do when running on Groundsman.


Heres my update to this: within a very short mileage (1600) I noticed a drop in compression so stripped the top end to find the top ring gummed in it’s ring groove and on gapping the rings found they were well past tolerance, fitted new rings and swapped back to Groundsman and like I and the other fella mentioned above could notice the engine become smoother straight away.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby gaz_powell » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 pm

What cylinder was this in ?
My gumming was on an iron barrel, my nicosil ones have been fine
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby MickYork » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:20 pm

When running my first Avanti i used the SIP fully synthetic @ 25:1. As i was running it in i didn't give it too much throttle. Near the end of my running in i lost compression. A strip down found gummed up rings.

I now run Exol at 50:1 (5+ years) and haven't had an issue.

My main mileage is long runs on motorways and the like.

I would suggest fully synthetic is not suitable for low revving and steady running. Fully synthetic is more suitable for high revving and when the engine is under more strain.

It may be that Exol is not as tolerant to low revving as some other fully synthetics ?
Last edited by MickYork on Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Rich Oswald » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 pm

MickYork wrote:When running my first Avanti i used the SIP fully synthetic @ 4:1. As i was running it in i didn't give it too much throttle. Near the end of my running in i lost compression. A strip down found gummed up rings.

I now run Exol at 2:1 (5+ years) and haven't had an issue.

My main mileage is long runs on motorways and the like.

I would suggest fully synthetic is not suitable for low revving and steady running. Fully synthetic is more suitable for high revving and when the engine is under more strain.

It may be that Exol is not as tolerant to low revving as some other fully synthetics ?


Do you mean 4% and 2% rathrr than 4:1 and 2:1 as that's rather a lot of oil?

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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Scooterdude » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:51 pm

gaz_powell wrote:What cylinder was this in ?
My gumming was on an iron barrel, my nicosil ones have been fine
RT225.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby MickYork » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:00 pm

Rich Oswald wrote:
MickYork wrote:When running my first Avanti i used the SIP fully synthetic @ 4:1. As i was running it in i didn't give it too much throttle. Near the end of my running in i lost compression. A strip down found gummed up rings.

I now run Exol at 2:1 (5+ years) and haven't had an issue.

My main mileage is long runs on motorways and the like.

I would suggest fully synthetic is not suitable for low revving and steady running. Fully synthetic is more suitable for high revving and when the engine is under more strain.

It may be that Exol is not as tolerant to low revving as some other fully synthetics ?


Do you mean 4% and 2% rathrr than 4:1 and 2:1 as that's rather a lot of oil?

Rich'


Now edited :oops:
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 am

In general, there seems to me to be a reluctance to accept that when we modify our Lambrettas to attempt to increase performance, that we can get things wrong.

I am in favour of Exol fully synthetic oil, the only type I am aware of specifically for air cooled engines, mixed @ 50:1 (2%) & use it in my own & other engines that I am involved with. That is, engines of a 'tuned' nature, including ported iron cylinders, Rapidos, Mugellos & TS1's.

Often, the negative feelings toward any product by Scooterists can tend to be anecdotal, but I do take seriously the comments regarding big end failures that was mentioned in this thread.

However, I have not witnessed any such issue, & unless tests are performed in laboratory like conditions, where mix ratios, fuel quality etc can be entirely trusted, then the only thing any of us can do is go with our instincts & experience.

What does appear to be an issue is the all too common practice of Lambretta owners adding too much oil to be 'safe'

Despite the warnings, time & again, within this Forum & others, about the detrimental effect this can have, particularly during running in on a well jetted engine, it continues to happen.

I really don't doubt that carbon build up & gumming up will happen if too much of any oil is mixed. Possibly big end rollers could 'skip' rather than roll. Engines may not even bed in properly. Who knows?

But there are some of us that can vouch for the oil in question used @ much leaner ratios than the norm. Some of us have been saying this publically for years. Compared to other oils, there is a substantial cost saving to be made.

IMHO, although I was initially cynical, my belief is that used sensibly, it is an excellent product.....
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Scooterdude » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:27 pm

I’ll stick with Groundsman now that i have tried both. I too experienced the “harsh edge” Tobaldlygo describes in his post above when running Exol and the way the engine settled back down when returning to Groundsman, weather this has anything to do with the oil being considerably thinner (less viscous) than Groundsman I have no idea.



You can buy Groundsman for £16.50 a gallon including delivery off eBay so this is the way I will be going from now on.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Norrie Bodge » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:15 am

[quote



You can buy Groundsman for £16.50 a gallon including delivery off eBay so this is the way I will be going from now on.[/quote]


Good price too - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2811471297
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:46 am

Wow! That's a good price. I've just treated myself to another 5.ltrs.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:13 pm

Just when you thought that this debate was long gone........ :roll:

Because I am currently thoroughly cleaning somebody's VHSB 34 LD, which has been laid up for some months, I was reminded of the variations in oils, in a roundabout way, by the stench & deposits on this carburettor, that has spent it's life so far on a TS1 x 60 mm stroke.

Now, I don't know what oil it has been used with, but I would like to know. I may find out in time. The other factor, of course, will be which fuel has been used.

That may be a bit too obvious, but the stench of this carburettor got me thinking & I guess that some fuels do deteriorate much sooner than others. I think that Shell & BP make good fuels, undoubtedly their DERV, but I rate Tesco Super Unleaded (Ultimate) & have found that it does not degrade anything like what I am seeing with the engine that I am working on.

Anyway, food for thought, as far as the quality of the petrol. Personally, I don't want to get into the debate about Ethanol or other additives. All fuels have 'additives' but not all are equal. I buy what I trust the most & steer clear of Supermarket fuels with the one exception mentioned, whatever I am riding or driving.

The other issue that's been debated, is the quality & mix ratios of the various oils. I realise that when images are posted about crankshaft big end failures, that before jumping to conclusions, all facts should be known. I have a lot of respect for anybody that builds their own cranks, races & maintains other race bikes, so when they advocate certain products, I'd be a fool not to listen.

However, we need to compare "like for like" when we make our conclusions.

For example:

I'm happy with a torquey, lower transfer & exhaust timing, long stroke Rapido using good petrol with Exol Optima @ 50:1. But I would not advocate the same in a much, much higher revving engine such as an RB or peaky TS. More revs = more oil. (Quite often, even then, the weakest link will be the cage utilised in the bearing. It is the cage itself that will be 'silver plated' but even then, quality of the cage varies dependent upon manufacture) Nor would I recommend the same oil & mix ratio in a near bog standard plodder.

So, I apologise for reviving this Post, but I wanted to communicate the fact that there are many variables that must be taken into account when decision making about oils & fuels..... ;)
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:32 pm

I'm running this at the moment, and done a few miles on it.

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/lubricants- ... 730a18050b

I can't remember how I came across this, but I don't mind giving these things a try. I'm happy to report that my engines seem to go well on it.
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby gaz_powell » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:07 pm

Silkolene is a Fuchs product, looks like their equivalent of Groundsman.

Good shout !
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Re: EXOL OIL

Postby Scooterdude » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:36 am

ToBoldlyGo wrote:I'm running this at the moment, and done a few miles on it.

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/lubricants- ... 730a18050b

I can't remember how I came across this, but I don't mind giving these things a try. I'm happy to report that my engines seem to go well on it.

And if the truth were known I’d bet it was the same product as one of their cheaper motorcycle derived 2 stroke oils, Scoot 2 perhaps? Much the same as Groundsman is the same product as pp2.

Good shout btw, never knew it existed.
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