New Condenser LI Series 3

[jonalabaster]

Hi there.

Have determined that I need to fit a new condenser to my 1962 early series 3 which has 4 pole stator and a battery. See page 265 of Sticky's guide. The current arrangement has 3 wires coming off the condenser and the one I have bought from scooter restorations has 2 wires already fitted and it doesn't look easy to unsolder them and then attach the 3 wires that are existing.

I have attached a picky of the stator, the condenser that I bought is on the scooter restorations web site under Ducati 4 pole condenser.

I have also seen that you can add the condenser further down the circuit but I am not sure if this is a permanent or temporary solution. Also I guess I could find a different condenser which is able to be soldered.

And yes I know I should upgrade to a 12V electronic system but wheres the fun in that

Cheers for your help

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I may be mistaken (in which case, you WILL get other responses....) but I believe that you only need the two cables as supplied. From memory, I cannot recall ever seeing three cables on a four pole stator.

I wouldn’t remove the cables supplied with the new condenser but connect one to the stator coil & the other to the points as per six pole stators. In fact, for some reason, the condensers I’ve bought recently seem reluctant to de-solder, so I’ve used what they come with.

BTW. You can test a condenser with a conventional meter. Here is a link if you want to try:

https://youtu.be/FDuN7QHn1-s

[Digger]

Points are fine - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Unread postby Digger » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:57 am

Points are fine - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Ha! I agree.

We read time & again about the change to electronic ignition being down to reliability.

Electronic ignitions, fit for purpose, have been in use for decades. Even I have Motoplat, PVL & Selettra ignitions built for racing.

However, I cannot believe that the cheaper electronic ignitions so commonly in use nowadays are more reliable than properly set up contact breaker ignitions. You only have to read the problems on this Forum to get an idea of the scale of the problem

[EddieStone]

I was going to keep mine on points since was really reliable in the 90s. Not now though, it was real pain - I relented and fitted electronic and it's been awesome. The main benefit with electronic is the lack of maintenance required. You have to keep that felt pad oiled or the heel of the pad wears. I haven't done nuffink to my electronic ignition since I fitted it.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Post by EddieStone » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:48 pm

I was going to keep mine on points since was really reliable in the 90s. Not now though, it was real pain - I relented and fitted electronic and it's been awesome. The main benefit with electronic is the lack of maintenance required. You have to keep that felt pad oiled or the heel of the pad wears. I haven't done nuffink to my electronic ignition since I fitted it.

Eh? Are we reading the same issues that come up time & again about 'reliable' electronic ignitions? You must be the exception! If I were you I'd do the lottery & make yourself a fortune!

Actually, jesting aside, there are benefits to electronic ignitions, particularly the ease with which timing can be adjusted to suit the engine characteristics.

However, if there were a straw poll on the reliability of the commercially available electronic ignitions for Lambrettas, I'd be surprised if less than 50% of Forum members had not experienced a failure of some sort...

[HxPaul]

I have two scooters,ones a series 2 that I got registered in Jan.2015 and the other is a series 3 that I bought in 2008. both have Indian 12v electronic ignitions.To date,touch wood,the only trouble I've had is on the series 3 when the CDI packed up.

[johnnyXS]

to answer your question all condensers have 2x terminals , a positive and a negative (usually black wire)
Some condensers have a single wire which is the positive + terminal and the negative connection is made via the aluminium body of the condenser. Some have no negative connection on the body which is electrically insulated internally . These type therefore have to use a second wire to connect to the chassis earth .

Re remote fitting yes you can fit your condenser anywhere on the scooter provided a positive wire from the condenser connects to the insulated side of your points the negative side of the condenser connects anywhere on the scooter to the frame or any metal part that is earthed.

There are a couple of good reasons to fit your condenser remotely. First it is easier to access the condenser and secondly condensers run hot which reduces their efficiency and can cause early failure so fitting them out in the open will keep them cool.

Hi there.

Have determined that I need to fit a new condenser to my 1962 early series 3 which has 4 pole stator and a battery. See page 265 of Sticky's guide. The current arrangement has 3 wires coming off the condenser and the one I have bought from scooter restorations has 2 wires already fitted and it doesn't look easy to unsolder them and then attach the 3 wires that are existing.

I have attached a picky of the stator, the condenser that I bought is on the scooter restorations web site under Ducati 4 pole condenser.

I have also seen that you can add the condenser further down the circuit but I am not sure if this is a permanent or temporary solution. Also I guess I could find a different condenser which is able to be soldered.

And yes I know I should upgrade to a 12V electronic system but wheres the fun in that

Cheers for your help

[jonalabaster]

Thanks Johnny XS that makes sense as when I touch one of the wires to the green wire from the stator and ground it to the engine the points stop arcing. I will work out where I can fit it and go ahead. I guess I could fit it in the stator and one of the wires will join to the green wire which leaves the stator and then join the remaining wire to the 2 wires which come from the coil and points as they are all joined together on the existing condenser.

The rest of the comments about electronic verses points I will stay out of as I am keen to keep this one as close to original as possible even if this means I will have to adjust the timing every now and then.

Thanks all for your continued help.

cheers

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Unread postby HxPaul » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:14 pm

I have two scooters,ones a series 2 that I got registered in Jan.2015 and the other is a series 3 that I bought in 2008. both have Indian 12v electronic ignitions.To date,touch wood,the only trouble I've had is on the series 3 when the CDI packed up.

Does the CDI packing up not somehow count towards a failure? It is, after all, an essential part of an electronic ignition

If I've ever had a coil fail during 40 odd years of use, I'd class that as a fail. I haven't known it happen, only condensers. Even then, the ignition doesn't always pack up entirely as it's there to 'serve' the points. They are absolute b*st*rds when that happens, I will concede.

I've had AF lightweight pick-ups c& CDI's fail as well as Motoplat CDI's & stators, so it's nothing personal!

[HxPaul]

Thats true.It was a Ducati CDI unit and was on when I bought the scooter,so could be any age.The point is,just because a CDI unit fails I'm not going to revert to using a points system,after all the condensers fail on points systems and you have to take the flywheel and other sundry items off just to get at the condenser.At least with the CDI unit you just unplug the wires and fit a new one.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Unread postby HxPaul » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:22 am

Thats true.It was a Ducati CDI unit and was on when I bought the scooter,so could be any age.The point is,just because a CDI unit fails I'm not going to revert to using a points system,after all the condensers fail on points systems and you have to take the flywheel and other sundry items off just to get at the condenser.At least with the CDI unit you just unplug the wires and fit a new one.

Actually, you don't

Besides OEM condensers being highly reliable (note that I am not referring to 'remade' products of unknown origin) a suitable condenser may be sited anywhere remote from the stator.

Those commonly used by cars proved ideal for the purpose & were often attached to the frame or magneto housing by the sporting enthusiasts years ago.

In other words, you can easily get around a (hardly) likely problem with an (even more) reliable component situated in a position where it easily substituted

Lets not forget that if the condenser fails, the engine usually continues to run. You can't say the same for a broken CDI

[HxPaul]

I think you'll find that most,if not all original condensers are sited on the stator plate and to get at it you have to remove the flywheel.Where you site the new one is entirely up to you.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Post by HxPaul » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:38 pm

I think you'll find that most,if not all original condensers are sited on the stator plate and to get at it you have to remove the flywheel.Where you site the new one is entirely up to you.

True. I was pointing out that if condensers really are as unreliable (as some of us would claim), the argument for the difficulty of substitution is not hard to overcome.

In fact, they can be left in the original position with a 'get you going properly again' lead from the stator running to somewhere remote with a spare condenser that can put into play, should the need arise. You can even make the set-up switchable!