HID Conversion - Paging Coaster and MKMonty

[Donnie]

Beginning to think theres something either actually wrong with it or there was something in the relay box I need.

Might just buy this one and start again, it's much simpler looking as i just wire the three wires into the current 3 pin plug

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35W-Motorcycl ... Sw~bFWOx0r

[MK Monty]

Donnie
It would seem from your video that it's failing to spark the beam. I have heard that this flicker can be a problem with some units. It may be that your unit has some other caps or something to smooth the power in your little black boxes. I know Coaster has not got them fitted. Mine has a multi terminal contact relay and I'm sure it's doing more than turn it to dip f full beam. Going back to your kit was it the same when you had the relay connected? I thought it was lighting up just not flicking up and down. I bought the car one so got 2 of everything so had spares. May be the way to go if you want to get another kit

[coaster]

Beginning to think theres something either actually wrong with it or there was something in the relay box I need.

Might just buy this one and start again, it's much simpler looking as i just wire the three wires into the current 3 pin plug

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35W-Motorcycl ... Sw~bFWOx0r

That is the same one as I have fitted to my jet only mine was a bit cheaper. It works just fine but unless you can fit the ballast in the headset you will need to cut and extend the wires connecting the HID to the ballast. As Mentioned earlier, the large red and black carry the very high voltage (25k volts) and shouldn't really be jointed. I extended mine using ordinary low voltage cable and it worked but I ended up buying proprietary extension leads but only one end was compatible with that ballast unit so there's still a joint in it. My LiS uses one half of this car kit and the extension leads fit both ends http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hid-H1-H3-H4- ... K:MEAFB:IT

This is the HV extension lead http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xenon-HID-Hea ... K:MEAFB:IT

And this is the low voltage lead http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pcs-HID-Volt ... K:MEAFB:IT

The last link is for 2 so if you buy 2 of the HV ones as well you will have enough gear to do 2 scoots (sell one on to recoup costs) With the car HID's you will need to remove 2 very small screws to get rid of the metal shroud which seem to cutb the light output a bit and is too bid to fit through the Jockey's reflector. I dremelled mine before realising it was easier to remove it. I'll take some picks of it later

[Donnie]

Donnie
It would seem from your video that it's failing to spark the beam. I have heard that this flicker can be a problem with some units. It may be that your unit has some other caps or something to smooth the power in your little black boxes. I know Coaster has not got them fitted. Mine has a multi terminal contact relay and I'm sure it's doing more than turn it to dip f full beam. Going back to your kit was it the same when you had the relay connected? I thought it was lighting up just not flicking up and down. I bought the car one so got 2 of everything so had spares. May be the way to go if you want to get another kit

Im beginning to think theres something in that black box too, i can get one beam, the video just shows whats happening when i try and get the other one ie it wont flick over

[Donnie]

Coaster, Im happy to extend the wiring, already got a pair of extension wires for exactly that which is why im thinking i might buy the simpler box one like on your jet.

However, im intrigued by the car one you also had with the shroud, did that not have relays etc too?

[coaster]

Coaster, Im happy to extend the wiring, already got a pair of extension wires for exactly that which is why im thinking i might buy the simpler box one like on your jet.

However, im intrigued by the car one you also had with the shroud, did that not have relays etc too?

It has one relay but I didn't use it, I'll get some photos taken later

[Marty ULC]

Once you've got it sorted any chance of writing a step by step idiot's guide to doing the conversion?
Stuff like do you need a battery, what to wire to where, exactly what parts need replacing with what, how did you work around fitting parts etc.

[MK Monty]

Marty ULC
One problem seems to be that all the cheap HID kits we are trying are eBay exports and they are all slightly different so it's hard to give red wire to here, sort of ID10T guide.
With something like the wassel DC conversion it was simple as it was a branded unit, all the same and wiring was simple.
As for me it was down to price, I bought the best quality one I could find with the thought that if it didn't work I had lost 15 quid. Nothing in the world of Lambretta's.
My list of must have, would start with
DC. You need to have gone full DC. Forget about AC and trickle charging devices or mod chargers and the like.
A Battery of some form is used for smoothing the supply, in my case it's working with a small 2.5 amp alarm battery.
Basically if you cannot figure out how to do the Wassell conversion you are going to struggle.
Then the standard reflector will not take the HID lamp so realistically you need to go for the Jockey B headlight. Not everyone's cup of tea as its not like the old fluted glass. The new beam would be refracted all over the place.
Coming up with instructions that cover all the different models with original wiring looms and all the new combinations sold, is not an easy option.
If you have sorted out the above you will have an understanding of simple Lambretta electrics and fitting the HID unit is not that difficult. No offence Donnie, you will get it sorted in the end.

[coaster]

I have to agree with what Monty says above, too many variations to do step by step but so long as you have at least a basic understanding of electrics you should be able to figure it out. Full DC Wassel conversion and battery is a MUST. The HID will light up without a battery but will flicker on and off when you slow down. I had that happen on the Derby 150 when the spade connector came loose on the battery.

[Donnie]

No offence Donnie, you will get it sorted in the end.

LOL, none taken

[Marty ULC]

I get that no 2 lambretta wiring systems are the same and understand that the kits will all have different coloured wires.
What you've posted so far is very useful. I now know I won't get away with a trickle charge system but would be okay using a small alarm battery on a full DC.
I have and old sil stator that I could do a wassel conversion with rather than using the new BGM one that's lined up for the bike.
It's getting my head around where the power feed comes in and how to wire up a relay that I'm likely to struggle with, am I right in thinking I can't just wire it up through the switch directly?

[coaster]

.....It's getting my head around where the power feed comes in and how to wire up a relay that I'm likely to struggle with, am I right in thinking I can't just wire it up through the switch directly?

The HID unit actually takes the same current as a Halogen lamp (35 watts) so there is no need to use a relay. My set up certainly doesn't use one. The DC feed to the Ballast unit is just a feed from the ignition switch and the 2 smaller wires are the wires from the dip switch. It really is that simple. The only complication is that you can't use the connector block built into the headlamp holder and will need to use something else. As the block just groups wires together in sets of 2 or 3, you can use these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REUSABLE-SPRI ... BogtOLaE8A

[coaster]

Donnie,

I had a play with my HID yesterday and can maybe throw a bit of light (pun intended) on the 2 wires with the ? I think you will find that one (I don't think it matters which) has to be earthed and the other connected to one of the wires from the dip switch. You will have to swap the dip wire if high beam operates on the dip position.

Not absolutely certain yours is wired differently to mine as I have chopped the control box out of mine but certainly, connection one of the small wires to negative and the other to positive operates the solenoid and disconnecting results in the lamp springing back to the default (dip) position. As there will be a positive feed into the dip switch which is switched to either of the other 2 wires go to the lamp in the standard setup it stands to reason you only need to connect the second of the small wires to one of these to enrgise the solenoid for hi beam

[Donnie]

Hmmm that makes sense, I did though in my trial and error find a poor solder in the relay box and fixed it, however, then I also tried something that several websites said to try, ie reverse the polarity but that resulted in burning out a capacitor in the same box.

So i've ordered the other one

[Marty ULC]

...then I also tried something that several websites said to try, ie reverse the polarity

[Donnie]

LOL!

[coaster]

If it's any help, this is the kit I have used


This is what's in the box, 2 sets of ballasts an HID's plus control box and fuse fore car installation


These are the only units needed for a scooter, I x ballast and 1 x HID


Unscrew the 2 small self tappers and remove the shroud as it won't fit through the hole in the Jockey's reflector.


HID connected to ebay extension cable


You will need to cut these connectors from the loom supplied with the kit


The red lead in the large plug with the yellow seal connects to the lighting feed from the ignition switch that would normally go to the dip switch and the black connects the earth on the frame. The other smaller plug with 2 wires, one connects to earth and the other to the main beam wire from the dip switch (polarity not important.

For MK Monty's benefit, this is the control box that I have not used


And this is what was inside it, I think it just re-distributes the power and also takes the cars man and dip feeds and send them to the HID (there is an H4 connector in the loom)


Hope that helps

[Donnie]

cheers for all that, thats one of the kits I looked at I have to admit

[Donnie]

quick update, simple one box one bulb 3 wire version has arrived, granted the box with the electrickery is fatter and hence not a slim ballast, but it is all in one, so really i do think slim ballast just moves some of the fat components into the relay box further into the wiring loom.

Anyway, 3 wires and bench test is A ok! So, that's a job for Saturday to mount and extend the wires

[Donnie]

Update, got it all extended, tested and working, rode two miles and now not working
Getting the same as in the video but this time the bulb is flicking from hi to lo ok, just not lighting up so guess it'll be back on the bench to track down whats happened