LCGB Forums

Please excuse my ignorance, but I've never actually understood the idea of the oil thrower.

Does it somehow scoop oil up and distribute to the drive side bearing? To look at it, it seems that it throws oil away from the bearing, but what would be the point in that? and if so, how does the bearing actually get lubricated; just from the oil flung around by the chain?

I see an awful lot of talk about it on facebook with some people getting angry and rude (as usual), but nothing about the actual pros and cons of it.

Good question, I’ve wondered the same

Maybe its to throw access oil away from that area to reduce the risk of it going through the seal and into the crank case.

Hi.
As it is guess time does it throw as suggested the oil onto the front sprocket and thus oil the chain?

Cheers Shane

shane BBoys wrote:Hi.
As it is guess time does it throw as suggested the oil onto the front sprocket and thus oil the chain?

Cheers Shane

That's what I thought until I thought about it, but that makes no sense.

The chain runs from an oil bath onto the front sprocket and therefore lubes itself and the front sprocket teeth perfectly well.

I wonder if the term "oil thrower" is a misnomer and just causes confusion?

It’s to throw the majority of the oil away from the bearing, it stops too much oil causing drag on the bearing and overloading the seal.

The component found in the Lambretta engine identified as an “Oil Thrower” is indeed a misnomer.It’s use to describe a dished type washer harks back to the Italian middle ages where the practice of refining olive oil involved employing a circular pan with a recessed groove to separate the different densities when crushing the virgin olives.After running off the purer oil in the outer section the remaining was “Thrown” into the “ordinary “ container for general cooking.
The fact that the “Oil Thrower” shape was incorporated in the construction of Lambretta engines was due to a batch of washers incorrectly formed by an outside contractor (also tasked with machining the splines on the kick start pedal pinion)
Anyone else got a better explanation?.

solostax wrote:The component found in the Lambretta engine identified as an “Oil Thrower” is indeed a misnomer.It’s use to describe a dished type washer harks back to the Italian middle ages where the practice of refining olive oil involved employing a circular pan with a recessed groove to separate the different densities when crushing the virgin olives.After running off the purer oil in the outer section the remaining was “Thrown” into the “ordinary “ container for general cooking.
The fact that the “Oil Thrower” shape was incorporated in the construction of Lambretta engines was due to a batch of washers incorrectly formed by an outside contractor (also tasked with machining the splines on the kick start pedal pinion)
Anyone else got a better explanation?.

I want this to be the correct explanation

My own interpretation is that the dished oil thrower has the function of distributing the oil around the crankcase & it's innards for two reasons.

The function of an oil shower is obvious from the aspect of lubrication.

The other, overlooked function is the distribution of oil to the very large surface area of the crankcase & cover with it's mass of ribs that encourage cooling of the oil via heat dissipation as well as adding strengthening to the castings themselves.

Unlike water, oil is not very good @ shedding heat, so the more contact it has with the cooler inside parts of the crankcase, the better.

I hate to disagree with solostax as his explanation is almost credible.

However, think Vesp@ front fork leg & Leaning Tower of Pisa for a moment......

[quote Warkton Tornado No.1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:36 pm

My own interpretation is that the dished oil thrower has the function of distributing the oil around the crankcase & it's innards for two reasons.

The function of an oil shower is obvious from the aspect of lubrication.

The other, overlooked function is the distribution of oil to the very large surface area of the crankcase & cover with it's mass of ribs that encourage cooling of the oil via heat dissipation as well as adding strengthening to the castings themselves.

Unlike water, oil is not very good @ shedding heat, so the more contact it has with the cooler inside parts of the crankcase, the better.

I hate to disagree with solostax as his explanation is almost credible.



That sir, has got to be the truth. Superb answer.
I shall now go and poke my Italian friend in the eye for wrong footing me !
However,I have taken your tip and thought about the Vespa@front fork leg & Leaning Tower of Pisa and after consulting my pal David Icke do have some Unconventional but logical reasons to explain their existence…..Perhaps for another day?

While you're on it pray ask for an answer to the reason for positioning the drive side oil seal on the 'wrong' side of the engine casing & the user friendly standard exhaust fixings... In breathless anticipation...

Andy B.L.C. wrote:While you're on it pray ask for an answer to the reason for positioning the drive side oil seal on the 'wrong' side of the engine casing & the user friendly standard exhaust fixings... In breathless anticipation...

Dear Andy B.L.C , many have pondered why with the cylinder cowling in place the exhaust nuts, or at least one of them, are difficult to access.Also that vital oil seal that necessitates a full strip down to remedy.
The reason is not that the Italian design engineers had not foreseen the problem arising from amateur owners attempting home repairs ,rather that the original engine layout and concept was conceived by a collaboration between Innocenti and the then famous French engineering consultants Messrs Maquis De Sade & Co., who insisted on certain design features.This little known fact also goes some way to answer the conundrums revealed on taking off the top headset thereby revealing that fantastic sexy snake’s nest of wiring /cables.
However as the passing of time, and therefore a passing of knowledgeable Lambretta owners, threatened the viability of home repairs a Saint Martin of the Round table together with other expert bold knights saw fit to debunk the mysteries of the Lambretta by publishing a bible that singled out most of the perverse tortures likely to be encountered.By way of “Tips” and practical advice in conjunction with LCGB the relative newcomer to the world of Lambretta is now empowered to overcome.

solostax wrote:

Andy B.L.C. wrote:While you're on it pray ask for an answer to the reason for positioning the drive side oil seal on the 'wrong' side of the engine casing & the user friendly standard exhaust fixings... In breathless anticipation...

Dear Andy B.L.C , many have pondered why with the cylinder cowling in place the exhaust nuts, or at least one of them, are difficult to access.Also that vital oil seal that necessitates a full strip down to remedy.
The reason is not that the Italian design engineers had not foreseen the problem arising from amateur owners attempting home repairs ,rather that the original engine layout and concept was conceived by a collaboration between Innocenti and the then famous French engineering consultants Messrs Maquis De Sade & Co., who insisted on certain design features.This little known fact also goes some way to answer the conundrums revealed on taking off the top headset thereby revealing that fantastic sexy snake’s nest of wiring /cables.
However as the passing of time, and therefore a passing of knowledgeable Lambretta owners, threatened the viability of home repairs a Saint Martin of the Round table together with other expert bold knights saw fit to debunk the mysteries of the Lambretta by publishing a bible that singled out most of the perverse tortures likely to be encountered.By way of “Tips” and practical advice in conjunction with LCGB the relative newcomer to the world of Lambretta is now empowered to overcome.

The Marquis was also briefly employed by Vespa to design the headset on their early models, ensuring that the single point of access via the speedo hole was just too small for an adult's hand to fit inside

Hat wrote:

solostax wrote:

Andy B.L.C. wrote:While you're on it pray ask for an answer to the reason for positioning the drive side oil seal on the 'wrong' side of the engine casing & the user friendly standard exhaust fixings... In breathless anticipation...

Dear Andy B.L.C , many have pondered why with the cylinder cowling in place the exhaust nuts, or at least one of them, are difficult to access.Also that vital oil seal that necessitates a full strip down to remedy.
The reason is not that the Italian design engineers had not foreseen the problem arising from amateur owners attempting home repairs ,rather that the original engine layout and concept was conceived by a collaboration between Innocenti and the then famous French engineering consultants Messrs Maquis De Sade & Co., who insisted on certain design features.This little known fact also goes some way to answer the conundrums revealed on taking off the top headset thereby revealing that fantastic sexy snake’s nest of wiring /cables.
However as the passing of time, and therefore a passing of knowledgeable Lambretta owners, threatened the viability of home repairs a Saint Martin of the Round table together with other expert bold knights saw fit to debunk the mysteries of the Lambretta by publishing a bible that singled out most of the perverse tortures likely to be encountered.By way of “Tips” and practical advice in conjunction with LCGB the relative newcomer to the world of Lambretta is now empowered to overcome.

The Marquis was also briefly employed by Vespa to design the headset on their early models, ensuring that the single point of access via the speedo hole was just too small for an adult's hand to fit inside

Hat, thanks for the info on the Maquis’s early work.Perhaps with the advent of computer technology,we might be able to create a database to identify and classify his murky deeds that many people are now discovering to their pain in present day hobbies and pastimes.

At the risk of digressing from the “Lambretta only “ traces of the Maquis devious talent ,David has seized upon the invitation to “However, think Vesp@ front fork leg & Leaning Tower of Pisa for a moment......” from our LCGB colleague WTno 1 ,and has already started on his next book entitled “I don't believe in coincidence”
In chapter 297 he reveals the truth of the Leaning Tower of Pisa. It is probably not known that there were in fact two Towers that co-existed in close proximity. Due to one of the earliest un recorded terrorist attacks (by flaming chariots) the Northern tower was completely destroyed leaving the remaining tower badly damaged and tilted at an insane angle.
Despite the obvious danger to human life, the Pisa town council refused to demolish the Tower and had the foresight to envisage it becoming a tourist attraction.This course of in-action gave rise to the verbal outcry of “Taka (down) the Pisa” from those who challenged the decision .
Jumping forward now to chapter 404, David examines the obvious connection between the Leaning Tower and the Vespa front fork.His convincing theory concludes that Mussolini himself decreed that a tangible link from the past be incorporated in the (then) modern era of mobility.The Piaggio company (already engaged in the Italian aircraft war production effort) committed to using the design of their single retractable nose-wheel landing gear as a symbol of Mussolini’s vision.
I cannot continue with this subject here as it does detract from LCGB relevance other than the Italian common denominator, but the book, after careful research, will be available on the first of the eighth (which happens to be David’s birthday….coincidence or what?)

So far what I've been able to confirm is that those with extremely strong opinions on faceache have based those extremely strong opinions on the machinations of a twisted 18th century Frenchman, which is nice.

Personally, I can't add anything to the discussion about the dished washer/oil thrower but I can add the following HIGHLY useful information:

1. It was the Marquis de Sade, not the Maquis. Maquis is ia particularly hardy type of wild grass which grows in southern France and after which the French resistance, which was based in Villard de Lans was named (lovely place where I got p1ssed watching the 500GP on telly once).

2. It's not really worth visiting the tower of Pisa unless you go at lunchtime during the week. There is a nursing college nearby and a cafe opposite the tower gets full of rather fetching Italian filles at lunchtime. I'd advise arriving around 1145. Or at least this was the case 20 years ago.

I did add a shim behind my oil thrower to align the chain and wondered if it mattered, but I suspect I'll never know. If i get a cylinder head leak or split reeds, I'll put it down to this shim.

Kerist!

We looked & looked for the correct fungi recently in nearby Wickstead Park, but found about ten, @ the most! (Think I'm joking?)

Obviously, there are very copious supplies elsewhere.

I've long lost the M de S's "Fun & Frolics on a Lambretta" handbook, but remember extremely well the section "Pillion facing backwards"

Oh, what fun it was to gently tootle along with my mate (WT No.2) facing rearwards......until it came to my turn.

The b@st@rd! It was my own scoot as well, with no panels or rear floorboards. He got it up into fourth on a bumpy, off-road course. Never, ever fall for that.

Whereas, when I was passenger as per the section "Sidecar attached to frame with only one loose woodscrew" I found that hysterically funny. Perhaps because the driver of the outfit could hear my screams.

Cabin fever.....

Re to the original question, I'd always thought it was to direct oil dripping down from the chain into the main bearing in other words throwing oil Into raher than away from the bearing. I think the webs on the inside of the case are to provide stiffness rather than cooling, as innocenti provide transmission oil cooling fins along the underside of the crankcase where they are in the cool airflow.

Not as interesting as some off the explanations above Im afraid

coaster wrote:Re to the original question, I'd always thought it was to direct oil dripping down from the chain into the main bearing in other words throwing oil Into raher than away from the bearing. I think the webs on the inside of the case are to provide stiffness rather than cooling, as innocenti provide transmission oil cooling fins along the underside of the crankcase where they are in the cool airflow.

Not as interesting as some off the explanations above Im afraid

maybe not as interesting but unfortunately, the most plausible.

However, it's still only conjecture and as we haven't got a decent answer here, I doubt we ever will.

Consequently, I hereby declare that it is no longer an oil-thrower, but instead the "funny dish-shaped washer". All catalogues should be revised accordingly.

coaster wrote:Re to the original question, I'd always thought it was to direct oil dripping down from the chain into the main bearing in other words throwing oil Into raher than away from the bearing. I think the webs on the inside of the case are to provide stiffness rather than cooling, as innocenti provide transmission oil cooling fins along the underside of the crankcase where they are in the cool airflow.

Not as interesting as some off the explanations above Im afraid

The only way that the dished washer could direct oil into the main bearing was if the engine was static. Centrifugal force flings oil everywhere outwards radially.....

Innocenti were extremely capable of making components serve more than one purpose. Besides the 'cases internal walls, early machines used the frames for the intake system. However, not all such 'dual function' components were for the better The change to utilise first gear as part the kickstarting method means the whole of the transmission must be rotated just to turn over, meaning we can't kick the things over in any gear with the clutch pulled in. Pity the kickstart was not centred on the crankshaft.....

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:
The other, overlooked function is the distribution of oil to the very large surface area of the crankcase & cover with it's mass of ribs that encourage cooling of the oil via heat dissipation as well as adding strengthening to the castings themselves.

Unlike water, oil is not very good @ shedding heat, so the more contact it has with the cooler inside parts of the crankcase, the better.