LCGB Forums

Toying with the idea of going back to points ignition.
Plan: Rewind LT coil on my old points stator. Remagnetise old LI flywheel. Use an easycap instead of condensor. Fit a GP boss to my old LI points flywheel so it fits my current crank. Try it out.
Why? I hear you shouting. Why not? I say. TBH scooter mojo has deserted me lately so it's something to do and pique the interest again.

As far as the GP boss bit goes, anyone done it? Alternative HT coils? Think I've still got a v3spa one which I carried as a spare in a previous points ignition life.

Cheers

(suppose I could buy a GP points flywheel)

Good for you mate,points are pure old school and original.
Allways remember setting mine in the 70,s and greasing the cam.

I've got a GP points flywheel if you want one.

What is an easycap?

I've never run points since the 80s, but wanted to on my current build. Ben at AF persuaded me that the spark was too weak to work well with an sort of tuned engine (it's only an rt195, so nothing special). While this didn't really make sense to me, I just accepted his word as he does have a teeny bit more experience with lambrettas than I do.

You certainly get a bigger spark with points. I struggle to see the spark sometimes with electronic ignition unlike the spark with points.

dickie wrote:I've got a GP points flywheel if you want one.

What is an easycap?

I've never run points since the 80s, but wanted to on my current build. Ben at AF persuaded me that the spark was too weak to work well with an sort of tuned engine (it's only an rt195, so nothing special). While this didn't really make sense to me, I just accepted his word as he does have a teeny bit more experience with lambrettas than I do.

Known a few people who ran a tuned top end on points with no issues, one mate ran a revvy Suzuki 190 top end and apart from a bit of points bounce at high revs- it always started and went well. Cheers Paul

Takes me back to the days of points bounce. That said, I have a couple of points ignition systems that I took off working scooters many years ago. I keep thinking “one day ….”

Scooterslag wrote:

dickie wrote:I've got a GP points flywheel if you want one.

What is an easycap?

I've never run points since the 80s, but wanted to on my current build. Ben at AF persuaded me that the spark was too weak to work well with an sort of tuned engine (it's only an rt195, so nothing special). While this didn't really make sense to me, I just accepted his word as he does have a teeny bit more experience with lambrettas than I do.

Known a few people who ran a tuned top end on points with no issues, one mate ran a revvy Suzuki 190 top end and apart from a bit of points bounce at high revs- it always started and went well. Cheers Paul

You beat me to it

It was a strange sensation. It acted as a form of rev limiter as you had to back off the throttle to keep it running evenly

dickie wrote:I've got a GP points flywheel if you want one.

What is an easycap?

I've never run points since the 80s, but wanted to on my current build. Ben at AF persuaded me that the spark was too weak to work well with an sort of tuned engine (it's only an rt195, so nothing special). While this didn't really make sense to me, I just accepted his word as he does have a teeny bit more experience with lambrettas than I do.

An "Easycap" is a trade name for a modern ceramic capacitor product that replaces the old school paper type capacitor in our magneto's. They are usually a tiny PCB with a surface mounted chip capacitor on board including a screw hole in the board for mounting and earthing it. They are much more stable than the old caps and unaffected by heat and age. Far better than risking some NOS genuine condensor that has probably sat on some shelf somewhere drying out for decades.

Fast n Furious wrote:

dickie wrote:I've got a GP points flywheel if you want one.

What is an easycap?

I've never run points since the 80s, but wanted to on my current build. Ben at AF persuaded me that the spark was too weak to work well with an sort of tuned engine (it's only an rt195, so nothing special). While this didn't really make sense to me, I just accepted his word as he does have a teeny bit more experience with lambrettas than I do.

An "Easycap" is a trade name for a modern ceramic capacitor product that replaces the old school paper type capacitor in our magneto's. They are usually a tiny PCB with a surface mounted chip capacitor on board including a screw hole in the board for mounting and earthing it. They are much more stable than the old caps and unaffected by heat and age. Far better than risking some NOS genuine condensor that has probably sat on some shelf somewhere drying out for decades.

Interesting stuff F&F, just found this - its for old Brit bikes but might be usable on a Lambretta points stator ?

http://www.britishcyclesupply.com/Produ ... asyCap.htm

I learned of Easy cap through another thread on here, when I thought of points again I remembered I had read something somewhere, and of course, it was here. I've copied a post from that thread here.....

Chadley wrote:I use EasyCap CU/220s as replacements for condensers on points stators: http://brightsparkmagnetos.com/easycap/index.htm



After I experienced intermittent ignition drop-outs when hot, I replaced the original Ducati condenser with an EasyCap. No further issues (well not ignition related!) since fitting it about four years ago. It requires adapting the generic PCB to suit and is not the cheapest item. I measured the capacitance of on original Ducato condenser and found it to be ~440nF but the EasyCap 220nF seems to work well for me.

It's an RT195 with 60/110. I may even downgrade carb too. What's happening to me?!!!

Nigel. S wrote:It's an RT195 with 60/110. I may even downgrade carb too. What's happening to me?!!!

What's happening to you? You're getting old mate and will probably be dressing all in beige next

Solid Air wrote:

Nigel. S wrote:It's an RT195 with 60/110. I may even downgrade carb too. What's happening to me?!!!

What's happening to you? You're getting old mate and will probably be dressing all in beige next

Getting old? How's the LD?

Touché

220nF is a good starting point that will suffice for most applications.
Technically...... the condenser value for any magneto ignition will be between 0.1-0.3uF (100 -300 nF) and have a working voltage in excess of 300V.
On a single cylinder magneto, the primary current flow will always be in the same direction every time the points open. So, if the contacts show signs of pitting (a tip on one side and a corresponding pit on the other), then, ideally, the capacitance value needs to be adjusted. If the contact material transfers from the negative to the positive point, the condenser capacitance should be increased. If the transfer is from the positive to the negative point, then the condenser capacitance should be decreased.

I guess folks will do what they want to do but I can do without the nagging thoughts about my points being the issue every time I had problems starting my scooter in damp conditions. It was the same when I graduated to mini's. At least with electronic you can easily establish if its the stator or CDI plus they wont go out of adjustment. Just my take on it

coaster wrote:I guess folks will do what they want to do but I can do without the nagging thoughts about my points being the issue every time I had problems starting my scooter in damp conditions. It was the same when I graduated to mini's. At least with electronic you can easily establish if its the stator or CDI plus they wont go out of adjustment. Just my take on it

Very fair point. I was a late adopter of electronic ignition, much to the amusement of people on arriving anywhere that had involved a long trip. And much to the despair of riding companions whenever we stopped for fuel, "Oh no, how long will it take him to restart it?!" when they just seemingly had to tickle the kick start and away they went. At the time it was a standard LI150 then changed to a Casa185 (Ace kit). Other than the odd restarting issue, at the time electronic seemed to me to involve spending a load of money to solve a problem I wasn't convinced I had. Eventually it was too much even for me and I succumbed and fitted electronic at the same time as fitting an RT195 and yes, starting is easy. (When everything else is optimal too).

So the challenge is to have an optimised points system, which I probably didn't have before. Hence rewinding the LT coil, which doesn't measure very well at the moment, rather than buying a new one which may involve the same challenges F&F refers to in buying a "new" condensor. EasyCap instead of condensor etc.

It's a project largely for self amusement and to see if I can, or can't. As for nagging doubts? The first 20 miles or so of every trip until I forget about it

Thanks for the input everyone. As usual F&F - great info.
Cheers.

Nigel. S wrote:

Hence rewinding the LT coil, which doesn't measure very well at the moment, rather than buying a new one which may involve the same challenges[/quote]

In an attempt to get more wattage and reliability out of an electronic stator I unwound a few Indian lighting coils to count how many turns and then thought I''d do the same with a LT coil. I cantremember how many turns were on the lighting coils, maybe around 100 or so but I never did find how many turns on the LT as I gave up at about 1000 as the wire which is about as thick as a human hair had been randomly dabbed with lacquer presumably to keep the coils from vibrating together and causing shorts and thw wire kept snapping I suspect this lack of quality control by SIL is the main reason for LT Failures. If I remember correctly, Adam Winston had some sucess in that area though.

Funny, that.. as I stripped the LT bobbin of wire only to think, half way through, as the messy ball of spaghetti like unwound wire got bigger and bigger, I really should be counting. Anyway, it was wound to the brim very neatly so that's what I'll aim for. I even thought of weighing the resulting mess of 0.75mm wire and using the same to rewind.
I found a YouTube thing about making a winding jig out of stuff someone like me will have lying around in the garage so jobs for tomorrow- order some winding wire, make a jig. Amongst other stuff.

Nigel. S wrote:Funny, that.. as I stripped the LT bobbin of wire only to think, half way through, as the messy ball of spaghetti like unwound wire got bigger and bigger, I really should be counting. Anyway, it was wound to the brim very neatly so that's what I'll aim for. I even thought of weighing the resulting mess of 0.75mm wire and using the same to rewind.
I found a YouTube thing about making a winding jig out of stuff someone like me will have lying around in the garage so jobs for tomorrow- order some winding wire, make a jig. Amongst other stuff.

You have too much time on your hands!