LCGB Forums

.....GT186?

Cant decide which to have, already have the MBGM clubby mark 3 for the last 6 or so months on the muggy 186 but dont know what peoples thoughts are on the others?

Rest of the setup is

Series 2
Triple port GT186 matched to casings
30mm PHBH with ramair filter on elbow
16.5 stone rider
static timing at 17 degrees btdc

My problem with the Franspeed is the fact that it's an expansion so theres going to be less ground clearance than with either of the other two which concerns me.

As for the gori, i know there's a few different ones but don't know anyone with one?

Darrell Taylor had a Gori GP50 on his dyno GT engined 'guinea pig' machine in this month's Scootering along with a host of other exhausts over the last few issues.

It might pay to wait until he's finished running all the tests before you spend your cash....

BGM Clubman definitely the one for me Donnie!

Fitted a Fran S/S Supertourer last year to my old set-up, Suzi 190 conv with 26mm PHBH & 60mm crank with similar output to a GT. Put it on for Germany last year then up to Scotland, came home and took it off!

Probably not a bad pipe for another scooter but a total pain in the arse on mine sadly. The slightest slope or head wind would kill it and drop it out of the power while two mates on Muggy 186s with Clubbys would hardly notice anything

Changed to GT186, 30mm PHBH (still 60/107) and returned to a BGM over winter and it rides much better again. A much more usable spread of power, an easier and more practical daily/touring ride

Hope this helps.

Also... had crank problems returning from Italy in June and nearly back on the road now. Have made a couple of changes and will be interesting to if see any difference... still the GT186 with V4 BGM, 60mm crank / 110 rod and 28mm Keihin PWK

When I bought my GT186 kit Rich T recommended the Franspeed Race over the Tourer, and I haven't been disappointed. I do however like my BGM on my GT200, it makes for a very easy ride, both different beasts. I'm sure I read on here (or FB?) recently that Lambretta Sash had built a GT186 with Gori 50 for a customer, maybe worth sending him a PM for his view on that set up?

I wouldn't recommend the Franspeed Touring pipe, killed my touring engine... Bonkers considering it's name!

I've found the best all rounder to either be a NK Rally (expansion pipe kick, but decent useable power range and a nice little bit of rev on) or a clubman type (rev on, good ground clearance, however most seem to fall apart on my engine and lack decent mid range kick).

Cheers all, seeing as Ive already got the bgm then that will go on especially as it seems generally good for some of you.

When I originally built this engine I had been in contact with Richard and was going for the franspeed but also considered the TSR evo which we discussed and I used (never again though) hence going back to a clubby style.

I know that the mbgm clubby is billed as an expansion in a clubman (which it can never really compare to a full on expansion) but have seen some reports of one of the goris being even better which intrigues me.

Is Lambretta Sash on here then? I'll have a search and contact him if I can.

NorthernJordan wrote:I wouldn't recommend the Franspeed Touring pipe, killed my touring engine... Bonkers considering it's name!

I've found the best all rounder to either be a NK Rally (expansion pipe kick, but decent useable power range and a nice little bit of rev on) or a clubman type (rev on, good ground clearance, however most seem to fall apart on my engine and lack decent mid range kick).

how did the franspeed kill the engine? Not considered the nk rally admittedly.

Donnie wrote:

NorthernJordan wrote:I wouldn't recommend the Franspeed Touring pipe, killed my touring engine... Bonkers considering it's name!

I've found the best all rounder to either be a NK Rally (expansion pipe kick, but decent useable power range and a nice little bit of rev on) or a clubman type (rev on, good ground clearance, however most seem to fall apart on my engine and lack decent mid range kick).

how did the franspeed kill the engine? Not considered the nk rally admittedly.

It's an RT so no rev monster, but I'd say the port timings will let it to rev up 7500-8000rpm with the right pipe.
However on closer inspection of the example dyno charts on the franspeed site the pipe makes it's peak power right up the rev range, around 7000-8000rpm. Which is right up there meaning that unless you have a revvy kit you never truly get on the pipes power.
Whereas the NK is at 6000-6500 a much more usable rev range, particularly on a fairly highly geared scooter with a low revving cylinder.
The ADS3 is even lower again, and I am tempted somewhat by this pipe for my own engine.

My opinion ties up well with what solid air is saying.

See graph below:



Different cylinder yes, but it helps as a guide.
I found my self constantly battling that lull in power before it peaks. However, with my particular set up I don't think I was ever even getting 'on the pipe', basically just killing the ride.
Theres more torque too through the usable part of the rev range.

Donnie wrote:Cheers all, seeing as Ive already got the bgm then that will go on especially as it seems generally good for some of you.

When I originally built this engine I had been in contact with Richard and was going for the franspeed but also considered the TSR evo which we discussed and I used (never again though) hence going back to a clubby style.

I know that the mbgm clubby is billed as an expansion in a clubman (which it can never really compare to a full on expansion) but have seen some reports of one of the goris being even better which intrigues me.

Is Lambretta Sash on here then? I'll have a search and contact him if I can.

Yes Sash is on here.