LCGB Forums

Hi all

No doubt this has been raised before so apologies. My small town for years has had only an Asda petrol station, I've had no issues with fuel but have been told that the fuel is of questionable quality. Finally we have got a dead posh BP Petrol station, the question is, should I use the super duper "ultimate fuel or stick to the "stock" fuel?

I'm running an RT195 and RB 230.

Enjoy the sunshine!

Stock

I used to only use bp and shell premium fuels as I did fancy oils. I now use the cheapest fuel I can find (usually Asda) and the cheapest oil (Rockoil Groundsman) done a good few miles this year including Brighton and back over the weekend, just over 200 miles each way, I think the main problems happen when you drop below 4% as it's easy to blame the fuel.

We all have opinions on fuel & oil based on experience. I reason that if consistently good quality products are used, you ‘gain on the roundabouts & lose on the swings’

I have great confidence in Exol Optima @ 2% in tuned engines which is excellent value (£15 cash for five litres) in conjunction with Shell V-Power, BP Ultimate or Tesco Optimax & avoid other Supermarket fuels as I understand that any problems will be down to the way they source their product.

(IMHO many riders have their carburation far too rich, particularly in the pilot & needle/atomiser ranges so perhaps that justifies using cheaper products rather than strive to obtain a 'cleaner' set-up. I even know of one rally goer that runs on choke there & back!)

I hope that helps....

I use the Exol fully synthetic @ 2% with the cheapest petrol at the pumps. A few ways to look at this......the cheaper the petrol the "fresher" it is as it's more popular and the tanks are emptied more regular. The expensive fuel may stay in the tanks longer as it's a slower seller (more time in the tank more likelihood of contamination).

I also believe there are only a few refineries in Britain and most of the local petrol sold is probably from the same refinery....regardless of how it's branded.

i had the same conversation with a very well know tuner recently and he recomended cheap supermarket fuel as it will have the least amount of additives in it, the stuff that damages your seals, i to use exoll optima fully synthetic racing oil, i buy it from a local shop £6 for a 1 litre bottle, i think its great value maybe a bit smokey but not had any other negative issues with it.

MickYork wrote:I use the Exol fully synthetic @ 2% with the cheapest petrol at the pumps. A few ways to look at this......the cheaper the petrol the "fresher" it is as it's more popular and the tanks are emptied more regular. The expensive fuel may stay in the tanks longer as it's a slower seller (more time in the tank more likelihood of contamination).

I also believe there are only a few refineries in Britain and most of the local petrol sold is probably from the same refinery....regardless of how it's branded.

You are correct about distribution of fuel, but like anything automotive, cross referencing affects our habits & opinions.

I had a car in which the cut off solenoid failed on a Sunday followed by the fuel pump failure the next day, both incidents causing breakdowns. I had always bought Supermarket fuels up until then with no particular loyalty, but the fails were when using Morrisons. So I read up about it on the likes of ‘Honest Johns’ Forum.

Since then, I’ve tried to use Shell V-Power exclusively in my estate car which uses no oil, has done 210 000 & shows over 50 mpg on the read-out & runs noticeably smoother on the Premium fuels.

holty wrote:i had the same conversation with a very well know tuner recently and he recomended cheap supermarket fuel as it will have the least amount of additives in it, the stuff that damages your seals, i to use exoll optima fully synthetic racing oil, i buy it from a local shop £6 for a 1 litre bottle, i think its great value maybe a bit smokey but not had any other negative issues with it.

There are concerns about the addition of organic alcohol in Petrol across the whole automotive spectrum. In the case of the Lambretta, aged design, you might consider that the hygroscopic, solvent, plastic dissolving Ethanol is a recipe for disaster. Of course, the Premium fuels have other additives such as detergents which aren't necessarily bad.

However, it can be reasoned that (for once!) our own additions of two stroke oil can have a positive effect in offsetting the negative aspects of Ethanol as surfaces are coated via the lubricant mist in the case of seals, fuel delivery components & all load bearing surfaces.

The worst thing that I have seen, or have been directly made aware, of is the float needle, but even of the ones that I’ve exchanged may have been probably 40 years old, which is way past their ‘sell-by’ dates in any case. BTW not all 'bad' float needles are black as Scootopia sells them that fit SH & VHB Dell'Ortos.

Lastly, as you mentioned it(!) I pay half of what you fork out for Exol Optima, so it's worth shopping around for five litre deals! The Northampton Agent owns a V*spa but we won't hold that against him!

You can buy your Exol in 20 or 25 litre cans from DHM Hydraulics same placeas I get my Groundsman, set it up with a drum tap and life couldn't be easier.
Wasn't there an issue with Exol gumming up rings and ports recently?

Scooterdude wrote:You can buy your Exol in 20 or 25 litre cans from DHM Hydraulics same placeas I get my Groundsman, set it up with a drum tap and life couldn't be easier.
Wasn't there an issue with Exol gumming up rings and ports recently?

There was a problem with two members of PeeJay’s club using Exol Optima & I’m not sure how or if it was resolved.

I wouldn’t have persevered with it but for the fact I was given five litres by Exol (Northampton) some years ago. When I first used it in 2012 for testing of a racer @ 3%, the smoke & internal components drenched made me question its quality, so I reverted to Rock Synthesis @ 3%.

So, I started using the Optima in road bikes (waste not, want not!), gradually backing off the mix & regularly checking the top end of a Rapido engine in particular. That’s how I arrived @ 2% which I still find quite amazing. However, it is specifically a fully synthetic racing two stroke oil for air-cooled engines, so perhaps that means less compromise....

I also have a number of McCulloch garden tools that run on a synthetic or semi/synthetic @ 2% that become ‘fussy’ & smoky if I’ve ever tried the same mix of Optima, so I’m not sure what you can conclude from that.

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:

Scooterdude wrote:You can buy your Exol in 20 or 25 litre cans from DHM Hydraulics same placeas I get my Groundsman, set it up with a drum tap and life couldn't be easier.
Wasn't there an issue with Exol gumming up rings and ports recently?

There was a problem with two members of PeeJay’s club using Exol Optima & I’m not sure how or if it was resolved.

I wouldn’t have persevered with it but for the fact I was given five litres by Exol (Northampton) some years ago. When I first used it in 2012 for testing of a racer @ 3%, the smoke & internal components drenched made me question its quality, so I reverted to Rock Synthesis @ 3%.

So, I started using the Optima in road bikes (waste not, want not!), gradually backing off the mix & regularly checking the top end of a Rapido engine in particular. That’s how I arrived @ 2% which I still find quite amazing. However, it is specifically a fully synthetic racing two stroke oil for air-cooled engines, so perhaps that means less compromise....

I also have a number of McCulloch garden tools that run on a synthetic or semi/synthetic @ 2% that become ‘fussy’ & smoky if I’ve ever tried the same mix of Optima, so I’m not sure what you can conclude from that.

Thanks, I think I'll stick with me Groundsman at 4% then, little or no smoke and £2.60 a litre. Was consistently getting 75 miles to 5 litres on the journey to and from Brighton so not bad I don't think.

Scooterdude wrote:Wasn't there an issue with Exol gumming up rings and ports recently?

I've been using Exol Optima for a good 3-4 years with plenty of miles covered and no issues to report, apart from being very smoky at slower speeds, until the return trip from Adria that is.

Last winter's rebuild included replacing the cast iron piston port top end with a cast iron reed valve set-up and a brand new crank.

On the way back from Adria the scooter suffered a big end bearing failure and I also discovered a gummed up lower piston ring, I'd covered about 3.5k miles since the rebuild. The previous top end never had any ring or oil lubrication problems.

A theory I am considering is that because I was trundling along slower than I would normally ride (50-55mph rather than 65ish) the oil was not getting fully burnt up which caused the ring to gum up, and for some reason (possibly connected?) the bottom end was not getting proper lubricated, causing the failure.

I have nothing scientific to back this up and this oil has served me well previously, but something in the equation has changed and this has knocked my confidence in this oil. Would be interested if there are any similarities with other people who have gummed up rings in their engine using this oil.

Mark


Got about 12 litres of the Exol going cheap if anyone is interested

All I can tell you is that my scooter goes better on standard unleaded than it does on the super. Never had an ethanol related problem, to my knowledge.

Scooterdude wrote:You can buy your Exol in 20 or 25 litre cans from DHM Hydraulics

Who and where?

I had used Exol @ 3% for quite a few years on several scooters up to my return from the Germany Euro without issue other than a bit smokey at low speeds.. Left the GP for a couple of weeks and then it wouldn't start. Turned out to be gummed in rings which to be fair were also very worn. Decided to stick with Exol as I had quite a bit but at 2.5% for this year in two bikes. Still no other problems yet still smokey at low speeds. I am going to run at 2% Exol from now on and see what happens.

Rich'

Rich Oswald wrote:I had used Exol @ 3% for quite a few years on several scooters up to my return from the Germany Euro without issue other than a bit smokey at low speeds.. Left the GP for a couple of weeks and then it wouldn't start. Turned out to be gummed in rings which to be fair were also very worn. Decided to stick with Exol as I had quite a bit but at 2.5% for this year in two bikes. Still no other problems yet still smokey at low speeds. I am going to run at 2% Exol from now on and see what happens.

Rich'

Is that Exol fully synthetic,or semi-synthetic ?

HxPaul wrote:

Rich Oswald wrote:I had used Exol @ 3% for quite a few years on several scooters up to my return from the Germany Euro without issue other than a bit smokey at low speeds.. Left the GP for a couple of weeks and then it wouldn't start. Turned out to be gummed in rings which to be fair were also very worn. Decided to stick with Exol as I had quite a bit but at 2.5% for this year in two bikes. Still no other problems yet still smokey at low speeds. I am going to run at 2% Exol from now on and see what happens.

Rich'

Is that Exol fully synthetic,or semi-synthetic ?

Fully Synthetic!

There's both.

rossclark wrote:There's both.

I use Exol Super semi-synth in both of my scooters and have for years.It seems that the gumming rings is only on Exol Optima fully synth.I'm on my third drum of Super (2 twenty litres and a 25 litre drum)I use it at 3% and have done thousands of miles without issue.

I've also been running Exol in my GP TS230 and done over 3.5k with no issues. I was running at 3% for most of that time on the fully synthetic - but came back from the IOW at 2% and my head temperature was lower, and performance was no different. I think I may have been over oiling (although I appreciate its hardly a scientific test).
Will continue to run 2% on both that bike and my Gori 200

I always use Super as apparently it is less likely to contain Ethanol. The last time I filled up with standard from a supermarket pump was back in June at the Morrisons at Harwich, all seemed fine until my next re-fuel and the rubber seal in the fuel cap had swelled so much that I couldn't get the cap back on! But as a rule I will always use super if it is available, if not I don't really worry...oh and Rockoil Groundsman which has served me fine for many thousands of miles