Woodruff key LD150 1957mk3

[GianfraCh]

Hi

couple of days ago when I finally cleaned the contacts and changed the HT coil, I rode the bike very nicely in all gears and was very smooth. Suddenly two days ago and yesterday the bike is giving me issues that I thought was the carb, I put new jet 75 and needle D3. It took time to make it switch on and when it did it felt bogging and instantly switched off. now I feel that the kickstarter slips when I kick hard. I do know my woodruff key is a little bit loose that it gives a small play side to side, not back and forth. The flywheel is tightened well with the nut but because of the key being slightly loose I do have a very small play side to side...

Could that be the issue? is it can be messing about with the timing? I do have constant spark though...new condenser, new coil, new jets and all carb cleaned.
Thank you!

[jbcollier]

Ok, a few issues.

First, the kickstart slip: is "grindy" or "notchy" like mis-meshed gears? Or, literally "slipping" like something sliding free? If slipping, check your clutch adjustments first.

Second, flywheel play: is the side to side play literally the crank/flywheel assembly moving towards the front and the back of the scoot? Or, you can turn the flywheel slightly while the crank stays put?

[GianfraCh]

Hi JB thanks for the reply

Right, so yeah it feels notchy or slippy at the bottom of th kick and it feels like it kicks back (rarely) and not to hard.

I do actually have the issue where if I put the scoot on the stand, if I try to go to first gear it won't, so I have to put it down, and roll it a bit and then it goes into first, but that only happens with the bike off and on the stand, I know I don't have to do that. But it does go on second gear with the bike switched off and on the stand but not first. Where do you mean I should look at the clutch adjustment?

The play in the flywheel is side to side, I cannot move the flywheel back and forth from the flywheel just side to side and I can feel it hitting the woodruff key slightly and then it starts to turn (together with the key) I do have a video of that play.. Where can I send that video to you? Might be easier to see what I mean. Thanks!

[GianfraCh]

Ok, a few issues.

First, the kickstart slip: is "grindy" or "notchy" like mis-meshed gears? Or, literally "slipping" like something sliding free? If slipping, check your clutch adjustments first.

Second, flywheel play: is the side to side play literally the crank/flywheel assembly moving towards the front and the back of the scoot? Or, you can turn the flywheel slightly while the crank stays put?

Sorry I see what you mean about side to side the qhe assembly. Is not the whole assembly. Is in the taper. Between the flywheel and the woodruff key

[jbcollier]

So, flywheel on, nut tightened, and you can move the flywheel without moving the crank until it hits the woodruff key?

[GianfraCh]

So, flywheel on, nut tightened, and you can move the flywheel without moving the crank until it hits the woodruff key?

Yes exactly. That's the play I've got in the flywheel

[jbcollier]

Sorry for the repetition, flywheel nut is TIGHT? And, the flywheel is still LOOSE?

If so, take off the flywheel and send me pictures of the crank taper and the flywheel taper.

[GianfraCh]

Sorry for the repetition, flywheel nut is TIGHT? And, the flywheel is still LOOSE?

If so, take off the flywheel and send me pictures of the crank taper and the flywheel taper.

No worries! The flywheel is tight, if I try to pull it it won't move. But when I start rotating it has a millimetre of movement before it hits the woodruff key cos is a bit lose. Definitely the taper is not in the best shape, I can still fit the key but not as tight as it should. I'll take pictures

[jbcollier]

You can move it only BEFORE tightening the nut? Or, after as well?

[GianfraCh]

You can move it only BEFORE tightening the nut? Or, after as well?

Before and after the flywheel is tight.

[GianfraCh]

You can move it only BEFORE tightening the nut? Or, after as well?

Hi JB I have uploaded the video to youtube, with volume you can hear also the play it has. (the spark plug was not placed so was easy to rotate)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adIZoSdYmt0

[jbcollier]

And, that is the flywheel turning on the crank? The crank stays still?

[GianfraCh]

And, that is the flywheel turning on the crank? The crank stays still?

The crank does not stay still, it does turn with the flywheel but it has that very small movement as the woodruff key seems a little bit loose. So I was thinking if that could alter my timing.

Also was giving the possibility if I am having an issue running it because of weak magnetism? even thought I can feel them pulling as I am guessing they should.

What did you mean before to check the clutch adjustment? Im no sure if maybe the issue is with the kickstart, but to be honest, I loaded the kickstart fine and it comes back as it should. The compression seems also good. If I try to press the kickstart down with my hand it is not too easy unless I put a lot of pressure.

[jbcollier]

The woodruff key provides a repeatable index point for the flywheel so you don't have to reset the timing every time you remove the flywheel. The woodruff key does not hold the flywheel in position, the tapers do that. A bit of woodruff key play can be dealt with by pushing the flywheel to one side or the other before tightening the nut. Reset the timing once, and you have a repeatable procedure. So, a slight ly loose woodruff key is not a deal breaker.

However, your video shows Noise? Movement? After the nut is tight Hard to tell what's up.

[GianfraCh]

The woodruff key provides a repeatable index point for the flywheel so you don't have to reset the timing every time you remove the flywheel. The woodruff key does not hold the flywheel in position, the tapers do that. A bit of woodruff key play can be dealt with by pushing the flywheel to one side or the other before tightening the nut. Reset the timing once, and you have a repeatable procedure. So, a slight ly loose woodruff key is not a deal breaker.

However, your video shows Noise? Movement? After the nut is tight Hard to tell what's up.

I see. Okay I'll see what I can do with the woodruff key.
So I'd have to move the timing again and tighten the nut moving it slightly?

You mean noise at the end. When I start rotating? If so, it is because the footboard on the kickstarter side is not letting the kickstarter come back fully, so I when I spin the flywheel by hand I hear a "click" sound. And the noise at the beginning is when the taper against the loose woodruff key.

[jbcollier]

Forget the woodruff key. Does the flywheel MOVE on the crank after the flywheel nut is tightened? If yes, you have a serious problem.

Kickstart. If the kickstart is not disengaging, you need to take it apart and fix the problem. Don't run it until it's fixed. Remember that, as answered in another thread, you sometimes need to shim the kickstart mech with multiple gaskets.

[GianfraCh]

Forget the woodruff key. Does the flywheel MOVE on the crank after the flywheel nut is tightened? If yes, you have a serious problem.

Kickstart. If the kickstart is not disengaging, you need to take it apart and fix the problem. Don't run it until it's fixed. Remember that, as answered in another thread, you sometimes need to shim the kickstart mech with multiple gaskets.

I see, when is tightened the flywheel moves slightly like in the first seconds on the video. The taper is not in good condition. Not sure if I'll have the get a new crank and flywheel too

Yes I believe I need to place more gaskets on my kickstarter. Which I will do.

[GianfraCh]

Oh, actually JB. The flywheel doesn't have the movement if I place tighten the nut without the woodruff key. It just moves if I put the woodruff, the movement I feel is the woodruff key loose.

[jbcollier]

Can you send me pictures of the tapers?

j b c o l l i e r @ s h a w . c a

[Rob Miller]

I know it seems hard, but I would suggest that you need to take it to someone experienced with shaft drive motors who can check it over and sort it so that you can enjoy riding a reliable Lambretta when it's finished.