LCGB Forums

saw this post on 'pistonheads' forum at lunchtime. Seems to have originated from the Federation of Historic Vehicles (or similar). There seems to be some form of Gov't consultation on the moved to 10% ethanol currently underway & comments feedback sought

I wonder/presume if there is a generic LCGB opinion that could be feedback on behalf of members

ADMIN- Apologies if this post should be in a different area



Message from the FBHVC:

The Department of Transport has issued a consultation document on the subject of introducing higher levels of ethanol in petrol.

Many older vehicles are likely to suffer damage and possibly dangerous fuel leaks if the E10 grade of petrol is used without modification to their fuel systems.

This consultation is focusing on vehicles more than 25 years old.

Whilst wishing to introduce the higher ethanol level E10 grade of fuel, the Government are proposing to guarantee a 'protection grade' of petrol at the E5 grade that is equivalent to the currently available 95 RON petrol. However this guarantee will only last until 2020 when further consultation will take place.

It is possible that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available.

The Federation has designed a survey on petrol usage in older vehicles which will provide valuable evidence in the consultation response.

Please complete the survey and help the Federation preserve our right to use 'Yesterday's Vehicles on Tomorrow's Roads'.

The survey can be accessed by clicking this link: https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS

If you wish to read the consultation document and/or take part in the consultation it can be found by following this link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consul... ... -labelling

The FBHVC survey will close on 31 August 2018 in order to collate the results for the Federation's response to the consultation, which itself closes on 16 Sept 2018. A copy of the response will be made available on the Federation's website.

Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.

Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.

We all need to be concerned: Ethanol is a shortened name for ethyl alcohol, which is a renewable fuel source made from plant material. Alcohol is a highly corrosive substance that’s hard on plastic, rubber, and even some metals, and over time it will damage vulnerable components. Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water more easily than petrol. That leads to water condensation inside fuel tanks, carburettor bowls and fuel lines where air spaces are present. It also erodes rubber hoses and plastic fuel lines. It contributes to rust in fuel systems by creating condensation in the unfilled portion of petrol tanks.
When an ethanol/petrol mixture sits stagnant in a petrol tank for a long time, it can separate due to a process called phase separation. Phase separation, in short, happens when water finds its way into the petrol tank and mixes with the ethanol. Ethanol will absorb and hold water until it reaches a saturation point, at which time the water and ethanol separate. This leaves a layer of alcohol and water at the bottom of the tank, which blocks petrol from entering the engine.

Watfordwhite wrote:Being a simpleton, what would be the effects on a tuned engine using a more Ethanol based fuel?
I only run mine all on Ron98.

Im confused what is Ron98!

Shane.

Shane,
Ron 98 is the expensive SUPER stuff. Not sure if it makes any difference, but it makes me feel better. Plus I only purchase from the most expensive petrol station in town.
Owning 3 Lambretta's I've got more money than sense.

Thanks Nugger, so I take it from your reply. The new fuel will possibly destroy seals, petrol lines, carb and tank filters at the very least.
Not great.
Will there be any effect on say Pistons? Does Ron95 with a higher Ethonal content run hotter. Will it be like the step from leaded to us leaded?

In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.

HxPaul wrote:In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.

Mr G in NYC....he has more than a couple

Watfordwhite wrote:Shane,
Ron 98 is the expensive SUPER stuff. Not sure if it makes any difference, but it makes me feel better. Plus I only purchase from the most expensive petrol station in town.
Owning 3 Lambretta's I've got more money than sense.

Got ya! I was thinking you had some 2 stroke oil that I had not heard off. DOH!

As in Shell V power, i treat both my mopeds to this both have nicasel lined barrels.

Shane.

Has anyone tried B3C Ethanol shield?

/\/\/\ not yet, but just bought some

is this it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ETHANOL-SHIE ... SwTM5YypNb

They also do a 2T oil with it in

gaz_powell wrote:They also do a 2T oil with it in

Ye seen that Gaz, I thinks I’ll try that stabiliser
Just looks like a little splash in the tank is all what’s needed

Found this on utube, very interesting take on ethanol in fuel
https://youtu.be/5uGhwwm5pt8

coaster wrote:

HxPaul wrote:In America they've been using 10 percent ethanol for quite a while.There is a member of the LCGB that lives in New York and he has a couple of Lambrettas,unfortunately I dont know his name but if anyone knows his name it might be worthwile PM,ing him and ask how he manages with the ethanol.

Mr G in NYC....he has more than a couple

Yeah just a couple mate .... OK so after living here for nearly 20 years and seizing
3 tuned engines that were built in the UK and shipped here with me when I first came over ,
I have detuned any performance engine I have , only ever so slightly as to offset the effects
of ethanol in the petrol and set timing to 17 static , so far touch wood it seems to have solved
the issue . except when I had a Rimini long range glass fiber tank , it reacted with the ethanol
and melted the lining of the tank and dumped black tar like substance into the barrel and piston
and thus seized it up , once stripped and cleaned and new tank installed , scoot ran like a top and
the Rapido kit i n it is still as strong as ever. ALSO,
I had a Boston whaler boat that kept stopping out in the Ocean and couldn't figure out why until I inspected
the fuel line which had been melted by the Ethanol , swapped out and no issues after that .
G

I use a product called Tetraboost. it's tetra ethyl lead. So not only does it boost octane,it turns fuel back to leaded, thus reducing friction and has ethanol protection up to 15%. Its available on the net

Watfordwhite wrote:Thanks Nugger, so I take it from your reply. The new fuel will possibly destroy seals, petrol lines, carb and tank filters at the very least.
Not great.
Will there be any effect on say Pistons? Does Ron95 with a higher Ethonal content run hotter. Will it be like the step from leaded to us leaded?

Sorry Watfordwhite - only just come back to the page to see your reply but I think the comments from Mr G in NYC says it all.
I don't believe higher Ethanol equals running hotter.

For what its worth, in France I ran the unleaded ethenoyl free and then 10% ethenoyl and on the egt gauge there has a 50 degree difference which was roughly the same difference as a ngk 7 and ngk 8.

Alcohol fuel runs with a very different Stoichiometric ratio to petrol.
Typically, the Air fuel ratio for petrol is about 14.7:1. For Ethanol, its about 9:1
So, adding alcohol to fuel will in theory lean out the mixture with a lower A/F ratio. So, slightly richer jetting may be required and poorer MPG is to be expected.