LCGB Forums

Hi, can someone please tell me if the Mugello 186 kits are really as bad as some people say.

My SX with the 186 kit, 28mm open carb and BGM V4 is so hit and miss, some days it's ok and some barely rideable - constant gear changes to get up even small hills etc.
I had it dyno'd by Al at Diablo and all seemed ok ( it had a JL3 on it then) but all the power was way to high up the revs for me, so I put the V4 on and it was much easier to ride but now I struggle like mad some days.
Various people blame the kit saying I will never get it set up right, is this the case ?
I am considering getting a RT195 to hopefully sort it but obviously this will cost me even more money, any tips or advice before she goes to the back of the garage and R1 comes out !!!

Seriously guys, would love to get her running sweetly.

Thanks, Andy

Seriously Andy, there's nothing wrong with the Mugello kits whatever CC, there has literally been thousands sold and they are mostly bulletproof. My guess is that gearing is your main problem. My mate has just had a genuine 70mph gps out of his S1 with 186 Mugello. Let us know your gearing and we'll take it from there. You probably won't find an RT kit any better, they're pretty much on par with each other.

Rich'

Wouldn’t think there’s anything wrong with your muggy kit, you haven’t said what gearing ya using?
Do you get a lot of spit back? I’d hang back on spending more money on the RT kit which I rate highly but everyone has there own opinions on them.The V4 Bgm has been known too strangle kits due too making it quieter than the V3 it replaced.
I’d still get the R1 out for a blast anyway

My mugello 186 was great I ran a jl 3 curly and a phbh 26, li 150 gearbox with a 15 front cog and 47 back with an 81 pitch chain it would do just over 70 and cruise at just under 60 no problem you did have to give it beans to get top speed but that's not uncommon for any kitted engine

Mugello's can comfortably produce over 30 BHP given the correct fettling & components.

I suspect the problem you have is either the exhaust or carburation.

There is a lot of loyalty to certain manufacturer's products, but dig below the surface, & there can be issues. As mentioned above, achieving reasonable noise levels with some Clubman exhausts is by making them restrictive. On the other hand, have you ever heard complaints about Ralph Saxelby's or Ron Moss's exhausts? I doubt it n, nor would you get anybody to sell theirs.

As for carburation, I would bet you have a PH Dell'Orto fitted. For various reasons, I am not a fan.....

My experience with Muggello's is that they can be a bit hit and miss port timing wise, I've even seen cylinders that have different transfer port timings in the same cylinder, also exhaust timing/blowdown/transfer durations can be a mile out, however in saying that not all are like this, once sorted they can be very good, reliable cylinders, make sure your ignition timing, carburation,gearing etc is correct, if so, i'd be checking the timings,

A friend bought a 186 kit and asked me to fit it for him, had the devils own job of trying to get the base of the cylinder to seal on the case, it could have been a great kit if the designers had taken the trouble to make sure the base fits the crank case. Then once it was all together there was the running, ran terrible kind of all or nothing performance wise and my friend (in all fairness) began to doubt my work and took it to a “proper scooter shop “ with a dyno! The verdict after stripping and reassembly was that i had built it properly and they couldn’t find nothing wrong, it was then set up as best as possible and still runs shit to this day!

I suspect (but never actually checked at the time) his cylinder was one of the ones with the dodgy transfer timing that has been mentioned before and i have seen bad cylinders from a certain dealer come up from time to time on eBay for around £70.

At the time the kit cost considerably more that the RT 195 kit that in my opinion is a better kit and actually fits the Italian case perfectly.

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:Mugello's can comfortably produce over 30 BHP given the correct fettling & components.

Tell me more! Mine puts out 17bhp running through a 30mm phbh and franspeed supertourer

If you search about i'm sure there's some Dyno that will give you them readings...........

WT is more likely referring to some heavily ported cylinders, BSSO grp 4's generally run 200cc muggellos between 30-35 bhp, although in saying that the amount of skill, knowledge and time to port such cylinders is incredible, also take into account the running gear, such as tailored, bespoke pipes, etc,

I should have qualified my response, but Charlie Edmonds was obtaining high 30's BHP circa 2012 & I don't doubt he could have upped that if the rest of the field had got uncomfortably close.

IMHO the majority of kits will need thoroughly checking in any case......much like anything that we buy into. That not only applies to Lambrettas, from what I am led to be the case for all kits, the fundamental difference being that those designed for bikes & karts are going to be higher power, even unchecked/unfettled.

However, apart from checking the port timings, there still seems to be a UK base of kilted Lambrettas that have been fitted with a Clubman exhaust that restricts not only the performance, but cause heat build up due to the tailpipe size. Getting a satisfactory carburettor set up on such an engine which is held back by the choice of exhaust is going to be, @ best, a compromise.

I've got a Muggy 186 on one of mine, it's now got a sidecar attached but before then it would comfortably cruise at 60 with a bit more for over-taking. That was with a phbh26, Ancillotti clubman and standard GP150 gearing which isn't the best but was ok.

But a good starting point for advise is to share what gearing you are using and carb setup as changing kit is a bit drastic for an issue that maybe easily rectified with a gearbox/sprocket change and carb adjustment