Hole in panel

[johnnyjarvis]

Currently running TS1 in my S2. Vhsh no filter, no hole in panel.
Putting this engine in my gp, Will I need to cut a hole for carb to breath ?

[Adam_Winstone]

Depends on the manifold that you have fitted as they are very different lengths. Likewise, there are various length rubber mounts, which also impact on how far out your VHSH will stick. If you can tell us what you've got, we might be able to give you a more informed response.

I have known a number of people that have run VHSH on a TS1 in a GP, without a hole in the panel, so I know that it is possible.

Adam

[johnnyjarvis]

It’s an mb manifold which uses the bolt on rubber.
The carb spigot has been altered to fit the phbh rubber. This has shortened the spigot a little which will help.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

The last TS engine I built for a GP had a VHSB34 & had a panel hole & if it had been my own scooter, I would have looked toward having a LH (Left Hand) manifold. The VHSB is a good carb & ran well, though the engine owner already had it. However - just for the record - when the engine was replaced in the frame I just happened to have a freshly blueprinted Chinese copy PWK to hand that I was given, so fitted that purely out of curiosity.(Principally, the first engine I helped set up fitted with a PWK took some getting our heads around, but once you ‘dare’ to accept that a set of pilot jets costing only a few quid may not be ‘accurate’ as far as their numbering, but just use them anyway going up or down as a comparator & keep those sets with the machine, because you can afford to ) I have to say that with a total guesstimate of jetting - though with a DIY foam filter - the PWK was as good as the VHSB.

Sorry for the transgression, but one of my preferences is to run an adequate air filter & there is so much more opportunity on the left side. Especially with an air filter friendly carb such as the PWK, though don’t think that I’m suggesting that the OEM air filter box would work.

What would be great now is if somebody with experience of a LH manifold could chip in & say how they have got on with their TS or RB fitted with such…..

[Storkfoot]

….What would be great now is if somebody with experience of a LH manifold could chip in & say how they have got on with their TS or RB fitted with such…..

I have a 225 TS1 with PHBH30. For years, I ran it with a RamAir filter through a hole in the panel of my GP. I used an MB inlet manifold with 3mm packer. It ran well. It was a 19/20 bhp TS1, not the fastest around by any means but, with a CST3, it was nice and smooth to ride with no noticeable flat spots.

Eventually, I got fed up of staring at rev counters, an expansion pipe and a filter sticking through the panel. I wanted a scooter that looked like a scooter, if you know what I mean.

I bought an LTH linkenummer inlet manifold to fit on the near side and to allow me to allow the carb to breath under the panels. I bought a RamAir sock type filter to fit on the intake elbow below.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/air-i ... mm-2211016

Since then I have added a drain hole to this rubber as there was petrol pooling at the bottom of the intake. The intake just, only just, touches my GP panel but it isn’t compressed.

As I changed the exhaust to a Ron Moss Avanti around the same time, and as I have not had it on a dyno in recent years, I can’t give you a scientific analysis of how performance has been affected. My personal conclusions, from my messing around, is that:

The LTH Linke Nummer made no difference to performance. Sadly, LTH have ceased trading now though.

The Ron Moss Avanti, compared to the CST3, produces a very small reduction in top end power (remember the CST3 is not a top end power pipe anyway, it is good from around 3500 to 5500 revs, from memory). But, I have not felt the need to change the jetting with the Ron Moss Avanti so both exhausts must have similar characteristics.

I would say, however, that the Air Intake has taken the edge off performance. In my case, I am not too unhappy with this.

Most of this is irrelevant to the OP. To the OP, I’d say that the LTH Linke Nummer works well on my TS1. There is plenty of clearance to the frame and, if you wanted to run open under the panels, it is not so close to the panel as to strangle performance badly.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

….What would be great now is if somebody with experience of a LH manifold could chip in & say how they have got on with their TS or RB fitted with such…..

I have a 225 TS1 with PHBH30. For years, I ran it with a RamAir filter through a hole in the panel of my GP. I used an MB inlet manifold with 3mm packer. It ran well. It was a 19/20 bhp TS1, not the fastest around by any means but, with a CST3, it was nice and smooth to ride with no noticeable flat spots.

Eventually, I got fed up of staring at rev counters, an expansion pipe and a filter sticking through the panel. I wanted a scooter that looked like a scooter, if you know what I mean.

I bought an LTH linkenummer inlet manifold to fit on the near side and to allow me to allow the carb to breath under the panels. I bought a RamAir sock type filter to fit on the intake elbow below.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/air-i ... mm-2211016

Since then I have added a drain hole to this rubber as there was petrol pooling at the bottom of the intake. The intake just, only just, touches my GP panel but it isn’t compressed.

As I changed the exhaust to a Ron Moss Avanti around the same time, and as I have not had it on a dyno in recent years, I can’t give you a scientific analysis of how performance has been affected. My personal conclusions, from my messing around, is that:

The LTH Linke Nummer made no difference to performance. Sadly, LTH have ceased trading now though.

The Ron Moss Avanti, compared to the CST3, produces a very small reduction in top end power (remember the CST3 is not a top end power pipe anyway, it is good from around 3500 to 5500 revs, from memory). But, I have not felt the need to change the jetting with the Ron Moss Avanti so both exhausts must have similar characteristics.

I would say, however, that the Air Intake has taken the edge off performance. In my case, I am not too unhappy with this.

Most of this is irrelevant to the OP. To the OP, I’d say that the LTH Linke Nummer works well on my TS1. There is plenty of clearance to the frame and, if you wanted to run open under the panels, it is not so close to the panel as to strangle performance badly.

Thank you! I doubt anybody could ask for a better response

You’ll know what I’m like…..’Pedantic’ is the polite way of putting it The reason for the drain hole will almost certainly be due to the PH carburettor not having an in-built float chamber overflow, unlike VH, VHSB, VHSC, PWK’s etc. That said, a drain tube is fine if it has something like wire wool shoved up @ it’s termination. Otherwise the engine is gaining access to unfiltered air, defeating the object of having a filter fitted. The whole caboodle can be very neat - almost ‘Factory’ - if the overflow tube goes into the slot as on S3 & early GP flywheel covers.

Going a tad off topic, inevitably I have had to make filters from the sheets obtainable & they’ve worked out well. Socks of all shapes & sizes can be fashioned with the use of a hot melt glue gun. I prefer to use the non-pre-oiled foam & keep the filter as close to vertical above the carburettor as the installation allows, principally to discourage filter clogging which is more prevalent on piston ported engines. When I tried the pre-oiled type of filtration, I felt that the engine was stifled, though I cannot quote the foam filtration figure now. I just wonder whether anybody has any comment on the subject of non-oiled versus pre-oiled, particularly when fitted to a powerful engine gulping large quantities of air

[Storkfoot]

This is the drain tube. It only has a small hole and, personally, I doubt it makes a perceptible difference to jetting.

https://www.lambrettaspares.com/mbp0692.html

I have tried making my own sock filters with the foam you can get off eBay and a glue gun. Messy and hard to not end up with something that looks like my granddaughter made at pre school.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

This is the drain tube. It only has a small hole and, personally, I doubt it makes a perceptible difference to jetting.

https://www.lambrettaspares.com/mbp0692.html

The OEM type fitted pre GP incorporated a valve, though MBD’s is very neat & obviously available nowadays as an alternative to DIY attempts. However, it is more-or-less precisely what can be done via an old, gutted Presta inner tube valve (of the type that bolts in) with flexible tube. The icing on the cake is the wire wool which can be added to either type

I have tried making my own sock filters with the foam you can get off eBay and a glue gun. Messy and hard to not end up with something that looks like my granddaughter made at pre school.

Sometimes there is little alternative to making your own within the space available. The cylindrical part is best made first, inside out so that the - Ahem! - ‘workmanship’ is concealed. Then the end plug part is glued from the inside for the same reason. But I know what you mean & there probably is a fuel proof adhesive that exists & makes the job a lot easier

[dickie]

When I tried the pre-oiled type of filtration, I felt that the engine was stifled, though I cannot quote the foam filtration figure now. I just wonder whether anybody has any comment on the subject of non-oiled versus pre-oiled, particularly when fitted to a powerful engine gulping large quantities of air

A lot of 4 stroke race bikes run without an air filter, but smear the inside of the airbox with Vaseline as an attempt to capture some of the crap that may find its way in. I can't really see how you'd make use of this on most lambrettas as they generally don't have an airbox unless they're fairly standard, but maybe it's food for thought?

[johnnyjarvis]

Thanks for the replies . I have thought fitting a manifold that puts your carb on the flywheel side.
A mate has done this and runs a phbh. I don’t think the longer vhsh would fit.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Thanks for the replies . I have thought fitting a manifold that puts your carb on the flywheel side.
A mate has done this and runs a phbh. I don’t think the longer vhsh would fit.

Are you sure? I just checked Eurocarb & overall length is 86.5 mm whereas the PHBH is 90.5 mm. You should check their site yourself as I may have misread it

[GP Kevo]

I've got two GPs with TS1s. My GP200 ran with a Mikuni TMX 35mm carburetor on an older type MB intake manifold with no hole in the panel. It cleared the panel but I tried different filters, screens, mesh, stick on panel filters. None of them worked as well as on my GP150 with TS1, same intake carb, but with a hole cut in the right side panel with a large UNI foam filter sticking out. It keeps the carb clean. I've ridden long distance in the rain and it still worked. A lot of riders out here in Southern California run with no filter, but none of them has running the same kit for 20 years. The carb breathes cool, filtered air from outside the scooter. Some people don't like the look but I like that it works. It can leave your right boot smelling of petrol, though. UNI makes pod filters for all size carburetors.
https://unifilter.com/

[johnnyjarvis]

My personal conclusions, from my messing around, is that:
The LTH Linke Nummer made no difference to performance. Sadly, LTH have ceased trading now though.

Are you sure? I just checked Eurocarb & overall length is 86.5 mm whereas the PHBH is 90.5 mm. You should check their site yourself as I may have misread it

Thanks for that, i did check it out and the length of the PHBH is 163mm and the VHSH is 191mm. I have tried my VHSH on my mates TS1 with the LTH left hand manifold and it wont fit.
This leads me onto my next question
Will i see a drop in performance changing to the LTH Linke Nummer and PHBH ?
Storkfoot has previously said that switching to the LTH left hander did not affect his performance so will the switch from VHSH to PHBH affect performance ?