LCGB Forums

Swapping to a franspeed super tourer on my TS1, running GP Indian 200 box what final drive should I be aiming at?
Currently running 19/46

Cheers Gaz

So thats about 4.8:1,

Depends on your style of riding. I ran at 4.45 on my TS1 230 ( moderate tune) and it was OK generally for touring etc unless you got a strong headwind or a long drag Hill then you would be chasing the revs a bit. I ran it at 4.12 on my 283 and it copes well enough although I could never get rid of huge rich spot at 4300-4500rpm which I don’t seem to have using a modified Gori

I’d give it a go with what you’ve got and see if you/it likes it. Won’t be that far off.

I’m currently experimenting with a CST3 on a TS1 and it’s a lot more torquey.

Can't report results yet as I'm just nearing completion of my TS1 230 build but I've gone for 4.7 final drive. JL3 pipe with Li150 box, 60/110 crank. 47/17 gearing on this set up. Not sure if this helps but it's based on advice from a couple of very knowledgable chaps!

I ran 19/46 on mine same set up, i'm 11 stone though. I also run 20/46 on my J230 Mugello but that IS very light.

Rich'

Thanks chaps, I'll give it a go on the 19/46.
I'm only 10 glen and travel one up with minimal luggage, rally use only

Feersum Injun wrote:Can't report results yet as I'm just nearing completion of my TS1 230 build but I've gone for 4.7 final drive. JL3 pipe with Li150 box, 60/110 crank. 47/17 gearing on this set up. Not sure if this helps but it's based on advice from a couple of very knowledgable chaps!

My TS1 was the same spec but with a Super Tourer and it ran very well, a lot of the time it would have pulled a slightly higher gear but I wanted some reserve for long hills or touring with luggage....I'm 13 stone btw

bike grim wrote:So thats about 4.8:1,

Depends on your style of riding. I ran at 4.45 on my TS1 230 ( moderate tune) and it was OK generally for touring etc unless you got a strong headwind or a long drag Hill then you would be chasing the revs a bit. I ran it at 4.12 on my 283 and it copes well enough although I could never get rid of huge rich spot at 4300-4500rpm which I don’t seem to have using a modified Gori

I’d give it a go with what you’ve got and see if you/it likes it. Won’t be that far off.

I’m currently experimenting with a CST3 on a TS1 and it’s a lot more torquey.

I had the same experience .....massive rich flat spot at 4500 and 5000 (TS230).......horrible ....got used to it in the end .......recently switches to a cst3 and its transformed the engine ....love it now, its currently 4.7 looking to lower that to 4.4/4.5 ish .

carlos fandango wrote:

bike grim wrote:So thats about 4.8:1,

Depends on your style of riding. I ran at 4.45 on my TS1 230 ( moderate tune) and it was OK generally for touring etc unless you got a strong headwind or a long drag Hill then you would be chasing the revs a bit. I ran it at 4.12 on my 283 and it copes well enough although I could never get rid of huge rich spot at 4300-4500rpm which I don’t seem to have using a modified Gori

I’d give it a go with what you’ve got and see if you/it likes it. Won’t be that far off.

I’m currently experimenting with a CST3 on a TS1 and it’s a lot more torquey.

I had the same experience .....massive rich flat spot at 4500 and 5000 (TS230).......horrible ....got used to it in the end .......recently switches to a cst3 and its transformed the engine ....love it now, its currently 4.7 looking to lower that to 4.4/4.5 ish .

What was the effect on top end, Russ?

Storkfoot wrote:

carlos fandango wrote:

bike grim wrote:So thats about 4.8:1,

Depends on your style of riding. I ran at 4.45 on my TS1 230 ( moderate tune) and it was OK generally for touring etc unless you got a strong headwind or a long drag Hill then you would be chasing the revs a bit. I ran it at 4.12 on my 283 and it copes well enough although I could never get rid of huge rich spot at 4300-4500rpm which I don’t seem to have using a modified Gori

I’d give it a go with what you’ve got and see if you/it likes it. Won’t be that far off.

I’m currently experimenting with a CST3 on a TS1 and it’s a lot more torquey.

I had the same experience .....massive rich flat spot at 4500 and 5000 (TS230).......horrible ....got used to it in the end .......recently switches to a cst3 and its transformed the engine ....love it now, its currently 4.7 looking to lower that to 4.4/4.5 ish .

What was the effect on top end, Russ?

Well i only put it on for Brid last year , and did a straight swap , without any rejetting ....but tbh, we ragged it there and back and didnt notice much difference top end wise, .....but i did nip up chasing "he who cant be named" on the way home on the a38 ....i think the cst3 supposed to drop off the power around 7000rpm .....but i was doing 75 ish on some stretches ........obviously on a private road
The Super tourer seems to have 2 power band ...i think Darrel Taylor mentioned this a few years ago ? ......its fine if you power through the gears , but a nightmare if you get caught in the dead area , following peeps doing 50 was hell ......i should say my scoot's set up very rich , so would prob exacerbate the problem.

Thanks, mate.

I ask as I know the flat spot you refer to on the TS1/ Supertourer. I have messed around with ignition timing (Kytronic since removed) and jetting to smooth it out. I did eventually virtually did get rid of it via a slight tweek on the mid range needle/ atomiser.

When I bought the Supertourer years ago, the other exhaust I did consider was the Chiselspeed one. The feeling at the time was that mid throttle it was really strong but it lost out at the top end. If I had the choice again (the older I get ) I’d probably go withe the CST

carlos fandango wrote: following peeps doing 50 was hell .....

Watch out for that on the CST3...with 4.4 final drive.... I found that riding with a group I could never get into 4th.... or was hunting between 3rd and 4th

What I have noted is that the 'on the road' performance of some pipes really doesn't reflect the dyno suggestions. Whether this be down to the specific porting of the motor, the influence of dyno setup, or other, I really don't know but there's nothing like road experience to tell you how a pipe will work on your motor.

Adam

foremanbob wrote:

carlos fandango wrote: following peeps doing 50 was hell .....

Watch out for that on the CST3...with 4.4 final drive.... I found that riding with a group I could never get into 4th.... or was hunting between 3rd and 4th

You should try following a bog standard Rally 200 for a thousand miles round Germany, 2 stroke version of the Hare and the Tortoise

coaster wrote:
You should try following a bog standard Rally 200 for a thousand miles round Germany, 2 stroke version of the Hare and the Tortoise

The operative word here is “following”

It was a good job I had a good legshield mirror. It was difficult to judge how far you were behind

My trip back from Ypres, up hills and against headwinds, has finally convinced me that the Supertourer must be replaced on my TS1.

Not being able to get past 4200 revs in 4th into headwinds, slam it into 3rd, 6000 revs and then put it back into 4th, only for the power to be lost and back to, you guessed it, 4200 revs again, made for one of my least enjoyable rides of recent years.

I’ve put my Supertourer back on the DSC Scotty TS1 to try it with the 5 speed box and messed with the jetting a bit and it’s riding really well. I honestly thought it would finally convince me to bin it off and was planning another experiment with a Gori but I’m leaving it for now. The 5 speeed box is set up at 4.8 in 4th and 4.3 in 5th. It’s easy to leave it in 4th if you are into a head wind or steep hill just to keep the revs up and cool the motor but it will actually pull 5th. PHBH 30, 138 main, 55 pilot, x13, 268 atmomiser, 40 slide. Riding up to Malton it was giving 10 miles per litre. The real test was coming back in the wind and it coped well enough.

The CST3 has been on my 283 since before the Euro and it’s staying on. I’ve got a 410 main (35 TMX) but still retuning 9 miles per litre. It pulls like a train but I’ve lost a bit of top end speed. Still does 80 easy enough and that’s fast enough LI150 box 19/46 (4.12)

bike grim wrote:I’ve put my Supertourer back on the DSC Scotty TS1 to try it with the 5 speed box and messed with the jetting a bit and it’s riding really well. I honestly thought it would finally convince me to bin it off and was planning another experiment with a Gori but I’m leaving it for now. The 5 speeed box is set up at 4.8 in 4th and 4.3 in 5th. It’s easy to leave it in 4th if you are into a head wind or steep hill just to keep the revs up and cool the motor but it will actually pull 5th. PHBH 30, 138 main, 55 pilot, x13, 268 atmomiser, 40 slide. Riding up to Malton it was giving 10 miles per litre. The real test was coming back in the wind and it coped well enough.

The CST3 has been on my 283 since before the Euro and it’s staying on. I’ve got a 410 main (35 TMX) but still retuning 9 miles per litre. It pulls like a train but I’ve lost a bit of top end speed. Still does 80 easy enough and that’s fast enough LI150 box 19/46 (4.12)

Gareth, your jetting transposed onto mine is too lean mid range. I have tried it. I fully accept that the 5 speed gearbox would greatly assist but, in reality, my Italian S3 LI 150 (4.8 final drive ratio at present) will have to stay.

Having worked with this exhaust since they first came out, there have been configurations where the flat spot has been less pronounced and, yes, I know that the TS1 does bring out a flat spot around this rev range. But, the exhaust does make it significantly worse.

I’d be interested in trying it on another engine but I suspect I’ll just sell it fairly cheapishly and then move on. Probably, to a CST3 as I suspect that would suit my preference to ride A roads, rather than motorways, in comparison with the FS Race.

Yeah, the CST3 will do the job I reckon. I’ve still got your slide here. Shall I post it back or are we likely to bump into to each other somewhere ? 4 Nations next

Didn't enjoy the franspeed on mine at all.
Its RT though, and thought the franspeed was more suited to a TS. However, what you describe is exactly why I took mine off.

I put on my old NK and it was a different beast. Great ride and love the spread of power. I always rate these pipes highly but they always seem overlooked? Either the NK rally road came out top on the Scootering TS1 dyno test a few years back. Definitely worth a look.

How does the TSR evo compare to the Fran supertourer on TS1?