Ignition systems

[gizmo]

With all the new and varied ignition systems about I'm after suggestions. Not being the best mechanical minded person on the planet I am looking for the best and most reliable one for my new Rb 20 project. Any suggestions would be most grateful. Thanks

[dickie]

Full DC ignition systems are the most reliable and stable. Not just in lambrettaland, but the world in general which is one of the main reasons that you have that on you car. And your wife's (a degree of presumption here).

A £20 used 3 Phase regulator rectifier from a Honda off Ebay is good value and quality.

You need AC to feed the regulator and three phase systems are the smoothest in this application.

Based on that, my ideal system would be Richard Taylor's aprilia based generator but with Chinese moped DC CDI. Richard Taylor's external aprilia trigger and a capacitor so you don't have to worry about battery maintenance. You only need a battery if you have a starter motor.

Anthony tambs is developing a 3 phase generator but I don't think it's available yet.

You can add a kytronik if you want to adjust curves; I've got one on my DC system.

[NorthernJordan]

Look at the SIP ignition. I've not used one first hand but it ticks all the right boxes. Hopefully get my hands on one in the new year.

[dave999]

Full DC ignition systems are the most reliable and stable. Not just in lambrettaland, but the world in general which is one of the main reasons that you have that on you car. And your wife's (a degree of presumption here).

A £20 used 3 Phase regulator rectifier from a Honda off Ebay is good value and quality.

You need AC to feed the regulator and three phase systems are the smoothest in this application.

Based on that, my ideal system would be Richard Taylor's aprilia based generator but with Chinese moped DC CDI. Richard Taylor's external aprilia trigger and a capacitor so you don't have to worry about battery maintenance. You only need a battery if you have a starter motor.

Anthony tambs is developing a 3 phase generator but I don't think it's available yet.

You can add a kytronik if you want to adjust curves; I've got one on my DC system.

the chinese moped stuff looks good

was toying with getting something like these two for a play....decided i needed to restore the wrecks i own first so never got round to it

concentric mounting and flywheel/fan problems, i'm sure, would keep me occupied for a very long time

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-WIRE-RECTI ... 2124630452

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stator-Magne ... 3763048187

or the sr125 Rotax 3 phase stator again mounting the thing looks like hard work, unless you buy one of Richard Taylors nice red anodised mounting brackets and do some machining.


3 phase stator external trigger decent reg/rectifier and a 12 volt battery would let you run full DC ignition... just trigger it with a GM 4 pin HEI module £15, use its matched laminated frame coil or and you have an ignition you could weld with.... primary can take 6 amps no CDI simple robust but potentially a bit big and heavy, if it can fire a 4 stroke v8 or a 4 stroke jag V12 to 6000 rpm it can do a 2 stroke to silly rpm no problem that was my plan anyway chevy v8 ignition for my scoot...possibly a daft idea but Hey... cheap as chips

Dave

[dickie]

Go on then Dave, you've got my interest. What's an HEI module?

The way I do it is dirt cheap and the most expensive part is the Anthony tambs external trigger. So if I can replace with your HEI module (reliably) I'd be happier.

[dickie]

Oh, I see what HEI is, surely that's just a replacement for cdi? It's taking a trigger and firing a pulse for the coil to transform. I know that's different to a usual lambretta electronic cdi, but I use Chinese moped CDIs which (I think) do the same thing.

What I want is 3 phase and a nicer external trigger. I reckon Richard Taylor's kit will give me that...next project.

[dave999]

HEI is High Energy Ignition

1976 GM invented an ignition that would work even if they stuck a massively restrictive catalytic converter on their big daft lazy inefficient V8 cars in the US
a coil that had a primary resistance of 0.5 ohms instead of the standard points coils 3 ohms and a motorola chip based switcher with 4 pins that was triggered off a magentic/reluctor pulse type trigger.. they had to build an ignition to stop unburnt fuel setting their catalytic converters on fire. the warrenty claims were bankrupting the company

simple and easy to use on anything with a stable DC supply of 12 volts..... designed to allow 6-8 amps to flow into the primary of a specific HEI coil...
will run off 9 - 15 volt supply. decent metal to metal heat sinking necessary. the cheaper the module the bigger the sink needed always buy 2 they last about 5 years.

used by GM all brands (US) and jeep jaguar peaugeot renualt lancia here loads of people

only useful to a 2 stroke IF they use a decent 3 phase generator a good stable rectified and regulated DC feed into a battery and have somewhere to stick the coil which is twice the size of a scooter CDI one.

but because on a scoot there is no alternator/regulator set up to stop charging the battery when it reaches 13.5 volts you have too much current flowing when you go fast..most sink it to the frame using some kind of diode/resistor/capacitor network
so having a coil that sucks lots of it up is a good thing the standard CDI or old style scooter coils will probably not (and i don't know) have the capacity to sink massive current and will probably not have the low primary resistance of 0.5 ohms..

i stick em on every old car i have so saw no reason for the reduction in number of wheels to get in the way of using another....

i ain't tried it. its all in my head.....could be a really stupid thing to do.... but hey...i have made some stupid mistakes and every now and then i come good

but here are some ebay searches for parts

4 pin hei is a C shaped module that mounts on frame or heat sink 2 wires on one end go to coil + and coil - provided the coil is connected to battery + via an ignition key switched feed, that is good for up to 8 amps...! and the two others go to your pickup if it runs bad swap the pickup wires round

the coil looks like a transformer from a 1960s record player. you want the stand alone coil with the spark plug lead stud on it not the one designed to go on a distributor cap, it has no coil to plug stud

stick this in ebay search box for module

(ac delco,wells,petronix,car quest,napa, niehoff,borg warner,gm,mallory,jegs,moroso) (dm 1906,d1906,acc35361,acc35367,d2000,21040,ech tp45, dr400 ,cbe4,cbe22,10482820,607,555-40600,97857) (module,hei,)

stick this in ebay search box for coil

hei coil (dr-35, e41, dr-182, ic22, 342d, gc400,d525)

top one for 12 quid is the one, postage is a bit steep you can get one here you can use any 70s/80s Fuel injection car coil i.e anything that looks like a transformer rather than the usual style silver tube. measure primary reistance anything from 0.5 ohm to 1.3 ohm will do above that and it goes into limp mode.....its a variable dwell module.. doesn't alter timing just keeps coil cool.
(if you want one that alsters timing a 5 pin or 7 pin can pull out 8-10 degrees if you connect pin 5 to +12 volt)

or if you want run a jag coil DLB198 from lucas bout 17 -20 quid from you local motor factors 1.3 ohm primary. keeps your module cool. i runs these on 4.5 litre 6 cylinders that rev to 6K

as i say all a bit big..... but i have this stuff hanging about as i use it on my old Mopar (chrysler) and used it on my VWs in the past.

take off points and put on daft 1970s module and coil that has been tested for reliability in the field/real life, continually since 1976 by millions of americans

i'd always rather repurpose something that has proved itself reliable in the hands of millions of idiots than something brand new tested by an engineer cos that's just one guy who knew what he was doing. if it passes the idiot test for years on end i'm happy (not saying americans are idiots this is a comment on the none technical general public)

served me well for 20 years.... i saw no reason other than weight and space, to change. Just needed decent easy high power 3 phase stator.


if you want a reluctor pickup the chinese one probably works or use the one out of a mopar electronic distributor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/323953026733?c ... gLzbPD_BwE

again you will get one second hand for pennys or find cheap chinese copy, proper chrysler one is robust in the extreme, although there will be decent bike ones in a smaller package i'm sure

take it off the base bolt it to your mag housing bend the metal a bit and stick the little black pickup bit parallel with flywheel edge mount iron or steel stud to flywheel edge. every time it passes you get a pulse on the wires

Dave