Gas and oil mix

[eyeguy]

Hi Guys, learning more everyday on Lambretta scooter restore. You guys have been a great help. So here I am again. I have turned my Li 125 into a 195 using the RT kit. I've set squish clearance, ring gaps, leak down test and much more. Loving it all the way. Then I get to petro mix and get 3 opinions. I know you guys have the right one
I am using real gas. 100 LL what Lambretta grew up on. Some say synthetic oil some non. The reason for non I understand is it will break in faster. I'm confused!!

Help
Eyeguy

[foremanbob]

Why dont you ask the dealer you bought the kit from what formulation of 2 stroke they recommend for running in.


I have heard both arguments. i use the best quality oil (fully synthetic) I can for both running in and normal life.

[Mel K]

I use fully synthetic rock oil at 4% and after over 16000 miles my crank and kit is still going strong,

[Digger]

It's a 21st century kit use a 21st century oil (IMHO).

It's a plated alloy kit it will be run in by the time you get to the first set of lights.

[eyeguy]

I bought the kit from bgm. And yes I have ask and was directed to his site. It is chucked full of great info. But really gives no direct answer. My reason for asking here was for those who may have been down the road so to speak.
I agree use the best oils. As a novice one can only ask for direction.

Thanks
Eyeguy

[ToBoldlyGo]

To be honest with you - and this just my opinion - using the best oil is a load of bollocks, and expensive bollocks at that. You might not need it. The fact of the matter is that a good semi will probably do you fine. Semi's are full of polymers, esters and additives too, state of the art stuff, so it's nonsense to suggest that it's somehow inferior. It's more than enough for most engines.

[coaster]

To be honest with you - and this just my opinion - using the best oil is a load of bollocks, and expensive bollocks at that. You might not need it. The fact of the matter is that a good semi will probably do you fine. Semi's are full of polymers, esters and additives too, state of the art stuff, so it's nonsense to suggest that it's somehow inferior. It's more than enough for most engines.

Completely agree with that, semi synthetic at 3% will be good enough and some for even prolonged high mileage usage such as rally attendance and such. Fully synth is complete overkill except in very highly tuned and high revving engines imho. Other opinions will no doubt be offered

[dave411]

Bet this goes on for many pages

[steveg]

It's been a (little) while since this one has come up.

Eyeguy I guess the reason no has given you a definite answer is because there isn't one. For what it's worth I use 3% and until 2 years ago swore by Putoline MX5 at around £11 a litre. Over the last couple of years though I have started using semi synth and currently have th eSIP oil at around £6 a litre delverd.
Going to try Groundsman next

[coaster]

Going to try Groundsman next

Nothing wrong with it, been using it in my TS1 for a year now with no problems at all (3%), I forget what I paid for the 5ltr drum but it works out less than £4 per litre.

[missing lynx]

Are you saying your going to run it on leaded fuel if so a lot of the timing advice compretion ratios and and other advice you've been given could be wrong as the advice would be for running with unleaded fuel

[CHRIS in MARGATE]

Oil snobbery !
Regular subject on here. I personally will not burn expensive oil just for the sake of it.
Good quality semi synthetic at 3% never fails me.
9000 miles since last rebuild on a high revving hard working engine.

[Mel K]

Expensive oil ?Our little crew buy in bulk, the last time we got a load we paid £7 per litre in litre bottles, time before that £6 per litre .
All in litre bottles too. If I had to pay 12/13 pound I'd consider using an alternative too .

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

There are various reasons that we are reluctant to change things as brand loyalty exists with many products & I suspect that even two stroke oil is an example. There are various Standards of conformity, but not all oil manufacturers quote the same set of Standards.

Then there is the claim &/or perception that “although oil XYZ is ‘only’ to that Standard PQR it far exceeds it” which is, in itself, a kind of oil ‘trumps’

Effectively, the most enterprising, pioneering riders on this Forum that clock up huge mileages are our Test Pilots for oil along with many other products & I, for one, feel grateful when they are good enough to share their findings. I salute them!

There can be very little doubt that within the field of two stroke oils there is the perception that full synthetic may not be as necessary as once perceived.

However, & this is only a sideways look, not a counter argument to that, what about synthetic oils used @ even leaner ratios?

I have no massive back up to my theory as I haven’t travelled, in recent times, anything like the distances covered by many of you reading this.

Nonetheless, I will explain why I wish to air my thoughts.

In 2012 I was given a container of Exol ‘Optima Racing Two Stroke’ as a gesture of good will as the intention was to try it for racing. In the event, due to opinions expressed by A N Other, I dare not make ‘too many changes’ so it sat about for a few years.

Eventually, I tried it in a road tuned, large capacity Rapido & rejected it as it was so smoky @ the ‘norm’ for that engine of 3%.

Then I read on here somebody remaking the same. It may have been Knowledge, but apologies either way if it wasn’t/was* (*delete as applicable!)

I’m down to 2-1/2% now & the smokiness is down to about ‘our’ normal levels & the internals are good, if perhaps a little clung with oil.

So, I’m tempted to try (Gulp!) 2% but waving this flag, here & now, to generate interest but also invite feedback, please, whilst we’re on the subject….

I hope you don’t mind, Eyeguy!

[eyeguy]

Wow! No kidding,this could last a while. It's fun! I am running leaded gas and have read some things about different timing. So any input what the degree of timing should be? I'm sure I can look at old publications on that but you pros know. So I think from what I'm gathering, 3% with semi synthetic. I may give 2% a try as I feel the leaded gas does produce some lubrication, any thoughts?
While we are on timing. What should be the rpm @ idle?
Hope I'm not asking dumb ????
Eyeguy

[citydaz]

Personally I think it comes down to the individuals perception of brand quality and how risk averse you are.
For my scooter rebuild I always try and go for "quality" bits and pieces. I extend this philosophy to my oil.
Since I have invested a lot of my time, energy, money into my scooter I would hate for it to seize and be damaged for want of a good oil.
So I use high performance fully synthetic at 3%.
i agree with a lot of whats been said about this being overkill, and it probably is, but at the end of the day it gives me both satisfaction and reassurance that its doing my scoot no harm.
Hope this helps!!

(on my standard 200cc Ve**a I use a cheaper semi-synthetic oil)

[HxPaul]

Personally I think it comes down to the individuals perception of brand quality and how risk averse you are.
For my scooter rebuild I always try and go for "quality" bits and pieces. I extend this philosophy to my oil.
Since I have invested a lot of my time, energy, money into my scooter I would hate for it to seize and be damaged for want of a good oil.
So I use high performance fully synthetic at 3%.
i agree with a lot of whats been said about this being overkill, and it probably is, but at the end of the day it gives me both satisfaction and reassurance that its doing my scoot no harm.
Hope this helps!!

(on my standard 200cc Ve**a I use a cheaper semi-synthetic oil)

But what makes a "quality oil " is it the name,the price,the specification.I was told that apart from having to de-coke more often and a bit more smoke,mineral oil is just as good at protecting the engine as any other oil.

[speedy]

I bought the kit from bgm. And yes I have ask and was directed to his site. It is chucked full of great info. But really gives no direct answer. My reason for asking here was for those who may have been down the road so to speak.
I agree use the best oils. As a novice one can only ask for direction.

Thanks
Eyeguy

If I am reading this correctly eyeguy,is it that that bgm supplied you and directed you here also? If so then I'm surprised that they didn't suggest using the oils that they have produced for them,both semi and full synth.If they didn't that's a little strange. cheers,Speedy.

[compass]

Tell me if I'm wrong, however it's very rare that anyone has or knows of someone who has had an issue with crank,barrel or piston due to inferior oil. Maybe because of incorrect ratios?

I ran my gt186 on 2% grounds man oil for 3 years with about 10,000 miles and no issues what so ever. Some of it was hard motorway as well. Admittedly it was a simple set up 24 mikuni and clubman. Could still sit at sixty plus all day .

But now have gt200 with 30ml and bgm and run at 3% grounds man . Have done 4000 miles and no issues. BUT only run at 3% because my bottom area is a little looser now, also used to have the reflex of a mongoose and the speed of a thousand gazelles when it came to the left hand hovering over the clutch

[burnside]

Tell me if I'm wrong, however it's very rare that anyone has or knows of someone who has had an issue with crank,barrel or piston due to inferior oil. Maybe because of incorrect ratios?

I ran my gt186 on 2% grounds man oil for 3 years with about 10,000 miles and no issues what so ever. Some of it was hard motorway as well. Admittedly it was a simple set up 24 mikuni and clubman. Could still sit at sixty plus all day .

But now have gt200 with 30ml and bgm and run at 3% grounds man . Have done 4000 miles and no issues. BUT only run at 3% because my bottom area is a little looser now, also used to have the reflex of a mongoose and the speed of a thousand gazelles when it came to the left hand hovering over the clutch

I use 3% groundsman in both my GT186 and GT200, no problems here either. Probably could drop down to 2% but I work on the basis that if it ain't broke then don't fix it