nylon/plastic cage drive side

[lam1962brettagg]

just about to fit a koyo drive side r2s. took one seal off to find it is plastic/nylon caged??
just wondered what the general concensus is about this. all other main bearings i've fitted have been metal caged.
standard s3 li150 casa new crank.
also, c3 or cm rating if a nylon caged is ok to fit?
cheers in advance.

[ULC Soulagent]

I wouldn’t fit it if it was mine, only seen and used metal cage

[lam1962brettagg]

thats what i thought.
nylon cage supplied to me by reputable company wtf.
at the time was unaware because it was a 6305 2rs cm. only when one side seal removed i found it was nylon caged.

[Knowledge]

Does the nylon-caged drive side bearings have an extra ball in them?

[lam1962brettagg]

Does the nylon-caged drive side bearings have an extra ball in them?

never counted them in the past. not sure really but will let you know if it matters.
can,t really see that it does. they looked as evenly spaced as a metal caged bearing.
fact is its a nylon cage which i dont have much faith in regardless of make.

just had a new koyo delivered metal cage no seals 6305 c3
both metal and nylon cages have 8 bearings.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

just about to fit a koyo drive side r2s. took one seal off to find it is plastic/nylon caged??
just wondered what the general concensus is about this. all other main bearings i've fitted have been metal caged.
standard s3 li150 casa new crank.
also, c3 or cm rating if a nylon caged is ok to fit?
cheers in advance.

A good European or Japanese bearing with 'rolling elements' that utilises cages moulded from mon-metallic cages can be used within the crankshaft support journals without issue. I have fitted many of them, generally on the magneto side, without issue. In fact, the rating of such bearings is often greater because they allow more 'crowding' of the bearing . That is, more balls or rollers can be designed in.

Kart engines that are loaded & rev significantly higher than Lambrettas utilise phenolic resin cages in preference to metallic cages.

The issue with moulded cages is where safety is an important factor.

I have removed newly fitted rear hub bearings with black, soft nylon cages from the layshaft because they fail, despite the manufacturer having the word "INNOCENTI" etched on to them. I am unsure of the copy rights in claiming such remanufactured products are "INNOCENTI" but I suppose one blessing will be that the actual manufacturer is well known to many of us by another name, & the inevitable investigation when one of those causes a serious accident makes it much more difficult for them to deny liability.

[lam1962brettagg]

just about to fit a koyo drive side r2s. took one seal off to find it is plastic/nylon caged??
just wondered what the general concensus is about this. all other main bearings i've fitted have been metal caged.
standard s3 li150 casa new crank.
also, c3 or cm rating if a nylon caged is ok to fit?
cheers in advance.

A good European or Japanese bearing with 'rolling elements' that utilises cages moulded from mon-metallic cages can be used within the crankshaft support journals without issue. I have fitted many of them, generally on the magneto side, without issue. In fact, the rating of such bearings is often greater because they allow more 'crowding' of the bearing . That is, more balls or rollers can be designed in.

Kart engines that are loaded & rev significantly higher than Lambrettas utilise phenolic resin cages in preference to metallic cages.

The issue with moulded cages is where safety is an important factor.

I have removed newly fitted rear hub bearings with black, soft nylon cages from the layshaft because they fail, despite the manufacturer having the word "INNOCENTI" etched on to them. I am unsure of the copy rights in claiming such remanufactured products are "INNOCENTI" but I suppose one blessing will be that the actual manufacturer is well known to many of us by another name, & the inevitable investigation when one of those causes a serious accident makes it much more difficult for them to deny liability.

thanks for the indepth info.
i'm really asking about crank bearings and never had an issue with rear wheel/layshaft bearing. but certainly one to watch out for thanks.
cant something be done about substandard parts/manufactures??
or does someone need to be badly injured or worse first?
cheers

[neily03]

Sticky's book does say plastic caged bearings are preferable to metal ones for the drive side of the crank. Though I've just fitted a metal caged one myself.

[lam1962brettagg]

Sticky's book does say plastic caged bearings are preferable to metal ones for the drive side of the crank. Though I've just fitted a metal caged one myself.

thanks for that. hadn't read that bit myself so i'll take a look. fitted a metal cage one now too anyway.
cheers

[dscscotty]

Used koyo nylon cages several times, without issue, in both road and race motors.

[lam1962brettagg]

Sticky's book does say plastic caged bearings are preferable to metal ones for the drive side of the crank. Though I've just fitted a metal caged one myself.

thanks for that. hadn't read that bit myself so i'll take a look. fitted a metal cage one now too anyway.
cheers

stickys book also tells us that there are 'ratings' for drive side oil seals too, but digging around and asking various bearing/seal suppliers there does not seem to be such a thing. the single number on the seal is merely a 'mold' number.
I would appreciated any further input on this matter though.

[Danbretta]

Any reason why the nylon cages are preferable? I'm hoping to fit a bearing onto the crank tomorrow and have a choice of both koyo metal caged and skf nylon caged German made. Any advice?
Thanks.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Any reason why the nylon cages are preferable? I'm hoping to fit a bearing onto the crank tomorrow and have a choice of both koyo metal caged and skf nylon caged German made. Any advice?
Thanks.

A good European or Japanese bearing with 'rolling elements' that utilises cages moulded from mon-metallic cages can be used within the crankshaft support journals without issue. I have fitted many of them, generally on the magneto side, without issue. In fact, the rating of such bearings is often greater because they allow more 'crowding' of the bearing . That is, more balls or rollers can be designed in.

Kart engines that are loaded & rev significantly higher than Lambrettas utilise phenolic resin cages in preference to metallic cages.