Metal filings from carb HELP PLEASE

[readsandypaul]

9 pm
Hi, Compleatly puzzled I have a Mugello 225 with 30mm phbh carb only done 1700 miles, also if its any help Anthony Tambs stator with af lightweight flywheel i dont know if that helps.
I am getting brass or copper coloured filings coming from the carb mouth onto the side pannel and on the floor board by the carb. The head has been stripped and found no problems. I cannot work out what is happening, does anyone have any clues THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP, i am about to get it dynoed in a few days so any help would be great before that, THANKS Paul.

[rossclark]

The only brass / bronze bits in your carb are the jets - is there any muck in the filter?

Any sign of wear to the atomiser - needle?

[readsandypaul]

May sound a bit daft but i dont know where the filter is, i have no air filter just open mouth 30mm phbh, or the atomiser needle, is it the carb bowl? having it dynoed in a couple of days do you think the carb is the trouble then, i can get a friend to look at it he will know what you are talking about, if you can give me any other clues to look for , the carb is about 2 years old about 3000 0r 4000miles done, thanks Paul.

[Avantone]

Long shot... The fuel tap linkage is brass. Maybe check it’s not fouling/rubbing on the carb when you go over bumps and dropping swarf where you say.

[Scooterdude]

My guess would be the flywheel is rubbing on the stator and causing the resulting dust to stick. Take the flywheel off and have a look.

[readsandypaul]

Flywheel was taken off to check a few days ago, no rub marks except a very small mark on the cable clip in there which was rectified, everthing was cleaned and put back and this is still happening, i will look at the linkage.
COULD THIS B E THE ANSWER, i had no problems with the carb before the kit was fitted, BUT i also CHANGED JETS AND NEEDLE for another number, i remember looking at the needle thinking thats fatter than the one i am taking out but thought that my be what the number means (diffrent thickness). Could it be that its the WRONG NEEDLE i was sent? when riding the revs have NOT been dropping off right, when changing gear it seems the revs dont drop as quick they seem a frackion slow keeping the revs there. I have replaced the inner and outer cable which seems a bit better but still not perfect, its still dropping revs off a fraction late. I dont know how it works does the slide go up and down over the needle and it could be rubbing giving me the filings on the pannel where the carb spits out the petrol also causing the revs to be sticking a bit, THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWERS, Paul.

[ULC Soulagent]

Could u tell us what jets n needle was in the carb and what was the spec of the new type put in place, all info greatly received too help us help you

[readsandypaul]

Hi i have a few jets in a bag excuse me for not knowing what but, OLD ONES the long thin one looks like 70, fatter long one is AV266, jets 130 and 122 the needle X4 that was with a rb 225. The new ones AV266 118 main 52 pilot 60 starter X7 needle, Fitted to Mugello 225 with Ron Moss x box, I had no problems when it was fitted to the rb, so maybe the change of these is the answer, I hope that is some help to you, thanks Paul.

[MickYork]

a picture of the carb' and surrounding area might be useful......

[readsandypaul]

I have been trying for an hour to attack photos but it says its too big, even tho its small i will try and add now theres a message, but it may not still.
Just to let you know they are very small filings thanks.
No it wont let me add the photos Sorry.

[shane BBoys]

I have been trying for an hour to attack photos but it says its too big, even tho its small i will try and add now theres a message, but it may not still.
Just to let you know they are very small filings thanks.
No it wont let me add the photos Sorry.

Take a look at Help With Forum.
Cheers Shane.

[rossclark]

There should be a filter in the banjo where the petrol pipe goes into the carb. Undo the bolt that holds it on lift it off and you should be able to see the filter.

[readsandypaul]

Yep i looked in the filter it looked clean but i wiped a tiny bit of dirt out, there was a bit of fine dust in the petrol pipe loop, i had put it on reserve yesterday, i drained that into a jar and it looked just black fine dust stuff but putting a torch on it trying to see if it sparkled (hard to see in the garage at 11pm) there looked like there may a been a couple of minescule shiney bits. I will clean the tank out on monday is there a good way of doing that with it still in the scooter its a midrange tank and i know it will be a git to get out ? Does that sound like what it could be coming in from the tank and getting blown out the mouth of the carb ? Thanks for you help with this, Paul.

[Scooterdude]

Not a recently fitted new stainless steel tank is it?

[roli150lam]

The jets in the carb don't move,the slide and the needle do.As neither the slide or the needle are made of brass I very much doubt there is any metal? debris from the carb.
My guess is the spitback from the open mouth carb is collecting dirt/debris from the air as it spits out and depositing on your panels footboard.
As you ride dirt is lifted from the road surface in the slipstream.So without a filter it's normal to have lots of spitback&road debris.

[coaster]

........... but i wiped a tiny bit of dirt out, there was a bit of fine dust in the petrol pipe loop, i had put it on reserve yesterday, i drained that into a jar and it looked just black fine dust stuff ......................... I will clean the tank out on monday is there a good way of doing that with it still in the scooter

This is a bit worrying, I had an issue with a long range tank that had severe corrosion on the inside. I onl;y discovered it when my GT240 started to loose power after only 4k miles due to the piston/bore being worn out On investigation I found quite a bit of a fine brownish dust in the carb filter and in the float bowl. Raking around in the bottom of the tank with a stick revealed that there was a layer of sediment and also rust scale on the inside walls and baffle. I removed the tank and soaked in in caustic soda solution for 24 hours, flushed it out and then filled it with brick cleaner and left that in for 24 hours to neutralise the rust. Finally sealed it using POR 15 from Frosts and have have no more trouble. That GT barrel needed a 0.5mm bore to clean it up (2 oversizes )

That tank might also have been responsible the demise of the TS1 top end that was on there before. There is NO way you will be able to do a satisfactory job of cleaning and sealing the tank in situ I'm afraid.

The issue of the revs hanging up is more likely to be due to it being slightly week at mid throttle ans fits with you having fitted a fatter needle although increasing the pilot jet might help when rolling off the throttle.

[readsandypaul]

Hi, i know about the spit back and road debrie but there seems to be fine brass coloured bits in it which is strange, i dont know how old the tank is i have had the scooter 3 years and it dosent look that new, i am having it dynoed on tuesday so i will not have time to get the tank out and back before then, i have been out today on it done about 70 miles there is no sedement in the u shape of the fuel line and it runs ok. i think it should be ok to dyno ? and then tackle the tank after, i will show them my pannel and see what he thinks. Any other ideas would be of great help, thanks in advance Paul.

[MickYork]

If there's no debris in the carb' filter then the tank looks ok.

How big are these particles ?

Could they have been on the panel originally and the the petrol spray is exposing them ?

[readsandypaul]

The particals are tiny, i wiped the panel clean, and after 70 miles there are looks like tiny brass filings in with oil petrol and dirt on the edge of the carb mouth on the panel around oppisite the carb mouth and less on the flootboard thats more just debris dirt. i checked the petrol pipe after 70 mile on the u bend and its clear.

[roli150lam]

Get a jug or bowl,secure a cloth over the top and drain your tank in to it.A dark piece of cloth maybe best,for spotting whatever is there.
Just disconnect the fuel pipe from the carb pot drain it into the jug.if there's anybfilings on the cloth it'll.point to tank or tap.