Full DC Ignition switch

[AlG]

I am going full DC but the decent quality DC ignition switches (Scootopia, Casa, etc.) do not switch DC on at position 1 - This means no DC for accessories or horn or brake light if I want the ignition switch to act as a master switch for all DC from the battery. I would only get switched DC in position 2 (side + rear light) or position 3 (main + rear light). Am I missing something? Do people add an extra switch switch from the battery supply to accessories, horn, brake light?

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I have only ever owned OEM switches of any kind & the UK market battery models always had permanently live supply to horn & brake light.

I would imagine any good replicas do exactly the same

The issue with the standard set-up that many of us used to have was that there was no standard means of isolating the battery so that pillocks could come along & drain the battery by messing with the horn or brake pedal. Hence the fact that keyed or hidden ion/off switches were added to isolate the battery.

This sounds like the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, I know, but still some logic to it. I think.......

[AlG]

Thats it WT1 - I want to isolate the battery when I leave it.
Looks like I need an extra switch from the battery then connect the accessories, horn and foot brake switch to live in the headset.

[missing lynx]

A std dc switch should have first position side lights on without engine running second position all systems off third position engine run no lights forth position engine run with side lights and fifth position engine run main lights on. So in position two no electrical things should work.

[citydaz]

A std dc switch should have first position side lights on without engine running second position all systems off third position engine run no lights forth position engine run with side lights and fifth position engine run main lights on. So in position two no electrical things should work.

+1 thats what i have on my system

[Fast n Furious]

Key position. Connections made.

Park (P-1) Grey(violet on indian switches) connects to Black & Yellow only.
Off (P0) Pink connects to Green only.
IGN (P1) No connections.
Side lights (P2) Grey(violet on indian switches) connects to Black & Yellow only.
Headlights (P3) Brown Connects to Orange and Black only.

Brown and Grey are linked together at the headlamp connection block.

This might help?

[AlG]

I was looking for DC output at P1, but apparently only S2 TV175 switches had that, so I have added a master switch from the battery live that provides DC at the headset. Problem solved.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

My earlier reply was correct for old school 12v systems that I have run since 1974.

The OEM loom based system used the battery to power up main lights, horn & brake light. If memory serves, the 6v OEM only powered up the main light etc with engine running, though I'm probably wrong......

[missing lynx]

I have only ever owned OEM switches of any kind & the UK market battery models always had permanently live supply to horn & brake light.

I would imagine any good replicas do exactly the same

The issue with the standard set-up that many of us used to have was that there was no standard means of isolating the battery so that pillocks could come along & drain the battery by messing with the horn or brake pedal. Hence the fact that keyed or hidden ion/off switches were added to isolate the battery.

This sounds like the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, I know, but still some logic to it. I think.......

I've owen 2 TV200's and an SX200 in my time and all three of them with the key in 2 nd position nothing electrical worked and the scoot wouldn't start

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I have only ever owned OEM switches of any kind & the UK market battery models always had permanently live supply to horn & brake light.

I would imagine any good replicas do exactly the same

The issue with the standard set-up that many of us used to have was that there was no standard means of isolating the battery so that pillocks could come along & drain the battery by messing with the horn or brake pedal. Hence the fact that keyed or hidden ion/off switches were added to isolate the battery.

This sounds like the opposite of what you are trying to achieve, I know, but still some logic to it. I think.......

I've owen 2 TV200's and an SX200 in my time and all three of them with the key in 2 nd position nothing electrical worked and the scoot wouldn't start

I had rather hoped that my later response (just before yours) would explain that I had misgivings about my first response. I do not have wiring diagrams in front of me to verify, but I really now think that the original 12v conversion alters the way things are to what was intended. Having full power lights with a non running engine remains a priority to me

[lofty]

i cant remember specifics and connections without taking my headset apart.. but i wanted dc available for a sip speedo in position 1 (i have DC battery set up)..
what i did is rejig the wires on a standard (original) switch so that i have
position 1 everything off
position 2 engine starts, horn/brakelight/speedo work
position 3 as above but lights on
position 4 redundant

i took the view that no one ever uses 'side lights' so no need for it..

if i get a moment i will look in the garage to see if i made a note of the connections i used..

[lofty]

ok, checked the garage (joys of 'working from home' )

this is on a full DC (wassel type) setup..

i used an AC switch (no parking light)
when i checked all the connections in position 1 (ignition, no lights) there were in fact connections between orange-black-yellow wires.. ordinarily this makes no difference as they are all outputs in the standard layout.

however with some rewiring this can be used..
so 12v from the battery is connected to the black wire
yellow wire is connected to stuff you want on other than lights eg horn, brake, speedo, cassette player, waffle maker etc..
purple wire goes to lights ie headlight switch, side light, rear light,
green still goes to CDI/kill and earth to earth..

no other wires are connected so check they are taped or go to a non connected hole in the wiring block

you need to get your head around the fact the wiring wont be as per the manual (it wont if its a serveta anyway )

and one caveat, i guess this may not be the case with different switch manufactures as innocenti used a few in production, so worth checking switch/wiring with a meter before connecting up and testing..

[Wack]

I'll have to try Lofty's idea in the future but for the past few years I've used the Beedspeed DC ones as they have an output in the ignition position.The wiring and terminals are rubbish so they need replacing but they've been a pretty good switch although they're probably not available now.Not sure but I seem to remember Anthony Tambs was going to make some with DC output on the first click?

[coaster]

There used to be law in the UK to have parking lights on at night and I think that is why UK spec Lambrettas and Vespas had batteries. Lots of cars back then would have an tiny accessory low wattage lamp clipped to the drivers side winow which gave a red light to the rear and white to the front so as no to drain the battery. You still need parking lights if parked on a road with an above 30mph speed limit and that applies the laybys too....not sure if that applies to two wheelers though

[Mark97]

OK - there is some quite different versions to what I have with a remade Scootopia DC switch and a DC Vape ignition - all wired up with a simplified loom:

Position Left - Side light on, along with horn and brake light working
Zero - engine off - but brake light and horn still work - so these seem to be always live.
Position 1 - engine on, no running lights and horn and brake light still working
Position 2 - as above - but with sidelight and rear light on
Position 3 - as above - but sidelight now off and changed to headlight function.

I always thought that was the correct way to wire a DC system??

All my accessories - USB and gauges are wired into the same circuit as Position 2 - sidelight - so will only work when in Position 2........ means I have to at least run a side-light if I want my gauges to work.....

Out of interest - where would you connect the gauges live wire if you wanted them to go live in Position 1???

[lofty]

Out of interest - where would you connect the gauges live wire if you wanted them to go live in Position 1???

that is the conundrum, as most original, or remade switches dont offer that function 'out of the box' as it was never needed on a standard scooter..

hence i believe there are some remade switches that offer this (sorry dont know which ones)
or
you have a separate switched live just for accessories (PITA)
or
you frig the wiring like i did above
or
you adapt a motorcycle/monkeybike switch, looked at this but is a pain to find one with the right positions, connections and fits in the hole or headset..
or
you dismantle a switch and mess around with the insides (i did this to a scootrs one some time ago, but with limited success)

[Fast n Furious]

With DC CDI setups I wire it so that key position 2 supplies +batt to the CDI module. This means that power is also applied on position -1 (park). However, with the red wire from the stator connected to the green in the loom this grounds the pickup in key positions 0 & -1. So,only allows the bike to start in key position 2 or 3.

[kevspeed]

Screenshot_20220629_131756_com.android.chrome by Kevin Payne, on Flickr
I know,i know.....not everybodys favourite,but ive had this for a few years and it works as it should