How do you set up Lambretta suspension?

[Knowledge]

At the risk of just getting a list of parts that people use or like, what is the process for setting up the whole suspension?

Do you weigh the front wheel and then the back wheel? Does this dictate anything? If so, what next?

The biggest criticism I have of my scooter is its handling, but I have never seen a list of what to do in what order. Everyone seems to just try on the best parts they can afford and put up with it.

There must be a process.

(Please, no list of parts)

[Fast n Furious]

Handling is a very diverse and subjective issue.
What might help is if you could detail what area(s) of the handing you would like to improve / change.

[Leotech]

Most people put those expensive dampers on and set them too hard,


Softer bikes grip better. (Motorcycle trails bikes are very soft and climb cliffs, Speedway bikes have no suspension and slide round turns)


Also set the rear suspension sag, there are countless videos on you tube showing how to set sag on dirt bikes, its the same on a Lambretta except you have about 4 inches of travel not 12 inches. Just scale it down. they have 12" travel, and 4" of sag. so Lambretta 4" travel 1" rider sag. Thats a start.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMzjdLpWTkM

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Leotech is spot on

Mikey Bonnet told us this some years ago as he hails from a MX background, the proof of the pudding the way he rides his Lambrettas....

[ULC Soulagent]

Unsprung weight is ur best friend for handling
Soft springs is good but damping controls it by compression/rebound and you could spend a lot of time n money in sorting that out

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I think that the standard OEM components are far better than we give them credit for. For instance, as far as I know, Dave Webster used OEM type front dampers for his racing career, even though alternatives were available. I can vouch for the fact that the Kawasaki type steering dampers are dire....

As far as I am aware, there are not any aftermarket dampers - front or back - with truly independent control adjustment for compression & rebound. The rebound always seems to be a product relative to compression. I hope to be corrected on this.....

[Leotech]

I run a suspension business for off road motorcycle racing, I could chat shit on the subject for hours.

Sag is the best initial setting for anyone but unless you spend £1000's on fancy dampers the adjustments on standard Lambretta components are none existent.

I re-valved the internals of R1 shocks for my own personal use, I made the compression damping softer and designed it to work with a shorter spring rather than a much softer one, The standard length R1 spring has a lot of pre-load which makes it feel harsh, If you have minimal preload suspension always works much better on the smaller bumps but as its still stiff spring it resists bottoming which is good if you hit pot holes etc. you pipe does not ground out. It wasn't ideal but it was very good, in the end I got shut of expansion pipes and went Ron Moss ExBox pipes and standard shocks!

I now run standard type suspension units on my Lambretta (escort and similar). I have yet to be convinced you need anything else on a road going Lambretta. If you're racing on smooth tracks and you can have the consistency a circuit brings then fancy shocks probably have a place.

[Knowledge]

Thanks for all your contributions. Perhaps the most telling is Leotech’s observation that he runs an off-road motorcycle suspension business, but prefers to use standard items on his Lambretta. I am still a bit shocked about that.

I might start a new thread on how to set-up an R1 shock, so don’t answer that here.

Meanwhile keep the posts coming on this thread.

[dickie]

I am certainly not a suspension expert but I do have a good grasp of it from 15 seasons racing zxr400 and r6.

What I've found is that people want to run "better quality" suspension with no real justification behind that.

Personally I prefer to run stiffer suspension but that leaves you compromised on bumpier roads.

It's almost impossible to say what is best for suspension as it depends so much on where it's ridden and what type of rider is using it.

Sorry for the half-arsed answer but it's a sort of half-arsed subject. It's a bit like asking "what's the best food?".

[Fast n Furious]

+1

[Leotech]

Suspension is always a compromise, you just need to find the compromise you are happiest with, and that might be totally different to a different rider on exactly the same machine.

[Leotech]

I think that the standard OEM components are far better than we give them credit for. For instance, as far as I know, Dave Webster used OEM type front dampers for his racing career, even though alternatives were available. I can vouch for the fact that the Kawasaki type steering dampers are dire....

As far as I am aware, there are not any aftermarket dampers - front or back - with truly independent control adjustment for compression & rebound. The rebound always seems to be a product relative to compression. I hope to be corrected on this.....

The rebound adjuster is usually a bleed through the centre of the shock shaft, you are correct the rebound adjuster also affects the compression damping adjustment.

The Ohlins TTX shock has completely separate functions for compression and rebound adjustments but that comes at a price, a high price!

[missing lynx]

I think your question needs to be a bit more succinct if you have std suspension then you have no adjustment but if you have aftermarket parts then it depends what you've got. Saying that I'I've had lads come to me with poor handling and 9 times out of 10 it's been a tyre problem (pressure or uneven wear) or buckled rims. There are other factors, where you sit, how heavy you are, the number of fat lads that inflate their tyres for solo not for with pillion and wonder why the back end feels loose or sit right at the back of the seat and wonder why the front is light!! I know this doesn't answer you question but its worth looking at.

[Knowledge]

I genuinely thank you all for your contributions to this thread.

Whilst I acknowledge that we are all different sizes and have different riding styles, there must be a good starting point for everybody. By this, I mean that if I took my motorcycle to a suspension specialist, I would not expect him (or her) to say “sorry, I can’t help you.you are the wrong size” or “I have no experience with Hondas”. For example, some Hondas have multiple adjustments on the OEM suspension, so someone must be able to help you tune those knobs to suit your weight and riding style. As such, there must be a starting point from which to start.

I think I need to watch a few YouTube videos on bike suspension set-up and report back to you all.

Meanwhile, I might start a thread “what’s the best food”, cos I love food. Thanks for the suggestion Dickie.

[dickie]

Very broadly, you want static sag that is about half your available travel.

Then do rebound damping, which should come back to resting position reasonably quickly without oscillating about its rest position, usually about half a second.

That is a very rough idea and assumes you don't have compression rebound adjustment.

Then tune it to what suits you from there.

[Leotech]

If you set the static sag to half the available travel by the time you are sitting on the machine it will nearly be bottomed out.


Rider sag, with rider, should be about 25-30% of available travel. Static sag, no rider, should be about 5-10%.

[dickie]

If you set the static sag to half the available travel by the time you are sitting on the machine it will nearly be bottomed out.


Rider sag, with rider, should be about 25-30% of available travel. Static sag, no rider, should be about 5-10%.

You're absolutely correct. I meant with rider on board and 50% is more than I would want, but you can start from there and adjust to good settings.

Like you said, it's always a compromise and some people are lighter or live in an area with poor road conditions (most of us now I reckon).

[wintermod65]

HI,

Steve Richards "steelweasel" on youtube did a how to set up bgm suspension video and Rob Gray " Kickback Garage" youtube did a comparison video and bit of a chat about BGM Vs Chislespeed /protech shocks, Rob also worked for Fox shocks as a suspension tech too .

Dave moss tuning on Youtube is good source of info from the Motorcycle world for the principles of suspension tuning.

Scooter suspension has a lot of catching up to do in comparison to Motorcycles or even Mountain Bikes and thats mostly to do with lack suspension upgrades in the market place . i think its just the Targaline shock that comes with an alternate spring weight. are any refillable or allow the ability to change the viscosity of the suspension oil they contain and none offer upgraded cartridges or valving options

its only recently the chiselspeed / protech rear unit has come out with both rebound and compression damping .

on my Series 2 i ran BGM rear and BGM skinny dampers , i think elastic bands would have provided better damping up front and although i set the sag on rear the damping /compression rates seemed all over place and the spring seems a bit one size fits all but generally to stiff for my rider weight (10 st dripping wet carry a bag of bricks!) ive since gone for a protech S2 on rear and adjustable Targaline on front as i have upgraded to a SST 265 motor

there is some hope on the horizon for suspension that might be more in keeping with the engine performance thats now available Paul from oiltek has been working with Ohlins and Rob Gray i believe has been working with scooter centre on their shocks/suspension products .
i'd like to see the Ohlins unit come into being as had their products on my last 2 bikes (Honda Fireblade and Ducati 848 evo corse) and there is a Ohlins dealer "MCT suspension" at Stowmarket so not far from me or you Martin .

well first post on forum so lets see how this goes down

[Knowledge]

Thanks for those last few posts.

Yes, I am familiar with MCT at Stowmarket. They are not cheap, but I guess they charge motorcycle prices, not scooter prices. They did give me some good advice, and that was free.

[GExS]

I mused that the latest, excellent Sticky tuning book might have added a section on suspension and general handling tips/ suggestions as this is the greatest, and probably the most important weak link we face with tuned scoots. When you see tuned scooters on videos riding fast they look too bouncy and wobbly. I’ve given up adjusting new expensive ones and stick to standard rear shocks with decent springs in the front with new rubbers. I was shocked to see on YouTube BGM’s rear shocks not even working correctly and even dangerous! I would suggest the innovators and dealers of new expensive shocks come out with some ballpark figures, like table to work on including your weight, speed, riding needs etc.
I’ve updated the rear shocks on my Guzzi V7 with Ohlins and they are a massive improvement all round.