AF Clutch mechanism

[Rich Oswald]

Has anyone got the instructions that came with the kit readily to hand? If so, would someone be so kind as to email them to me at storkfoot@gmail.com please?

I have fitted it and it makes the clutch action significantly easier but I now have clutch drag that isn’t proving easy to resolve.

I had bad clutch drag after fitting. It took a lot of faffing to get it right. Only worked on outside setting and had to release trunnion a bit and then wind adjuster right back. Worked eventually. I will have a look in the garage for the instructions Paul, not sure where they are.

Rich'

[Rich Oswald]

Instructions emailed to you Paul,

Rich'

[Storkfoot]

Thanks very much, Rich. These were the two pages I was after:




I too seem to be restricted to the outer setting and having replaced my MB dogleg lever with a standard one, only get 10/11 mm movement of the cable. That movement was the same with the MB and standard levers. On the plus side, after an afternoon of faffing about, I have remedied the drag but, in all honesty, the clutch lever is only, say, 10/15% better than before I started.

The Lambretta I have fitted this to is a TS1 225 with a 7 plate LTH clutch. I also have this clutch on another scooter with the Chiselspeed easy clutch set up. The Chiselspeed one is very significantly easier and is a joy to use. I know no two scooters are the same and there are lots of other factors at play here, but at the moment I am a bit disappointed in the AF multi clutch.

Interestingly, my CST set up cable moves 15mm.

I’ll have a look at cable routing next.

[gaz_powell]

Some good real life feedback, Ive not fitted mine yet.
Just before these came out, i fitted SSC long yamaha style lever at top and the MB short lever at bottom, kept existing outer and shot a new inner in, made for a very nice action on a five plate.
No hasstle setting it up

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

It looks to be a good product for the price but having read the accompanying instructions, I was expecting that with the proliferation of clutches with more than the OEM four friction plates, there should be settings within the actuator arm/lever for more movement, not just to match the standard with three alternatives for less

Having used modified OEM clutches with thinner friction plates & steel plates of up to nine friction plates, it is a fact that many of us know, more plates necessitates more total separation. The means by which this was achieved was by shortening (cut & weld) the OEM actuator arm/lever &/or setting it @ an angle considerably further back than the 90° suggested. It doesn't make for an easier pull @ the lever, but it does gain the necessary separation to avoid clutch drag, in itself the common cause of gear tooth breakages.

For anybody doubting the logic, think about a piston @ TDC & how little it will move for quite a lot of angular crankshaft rotation either side. Moving the actuator arm/lever to a more acute angle is the same principle but in reverse. An actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement when you are invariably looking for more, not less

Even if anybody fails to understand the science, it's worth giving it a try as all that is required is the re-siting of the arm & corresponding adjustment of the trunion. Then, if you like that, have I ever mentioned using ATF?

[Rich Oswald]

Paul, mine is on my RT230 reed on my S Type. It's a 4 plate st'd clutch (new surflex plates) with MB springs. Clutch was always easy when top end was Rapido and springs is the only change. I have arthritis in my thumb joint so it had become difficult to operate. Like you, 10-15% better but that's enough and i'm happy with the improvement. I have a Chiselspeed Easy Clutch on my Series one with AF road cassette and agree that is so much better and a joy to use. I do understand that the AF is not really for st'd clutches but the improvement was enough for me so I am happy.

Rich'

[Storkfoot]

I’m going to have a look at the cable routing, particularly in the headset. I am also going to try the Casa large ball ended lever (I have that on my other scooter and whilst it is a bit big for my small hands, it does, maybe, give more pull). I was also thinking of trying the old clutch arm.

I don’t want to put people off trying this product. It has lessened the amount of force needed to depress the clutch. Perhaps, with my knowledge of the Chiselspeed arrangement, I was just expecting a bit too much.

[gp200ts1]

After fitting a new Teflon cable and fettling the route through the headset I can confirm my af race clutch is now 1 finger operation.

[Storkfoot]

Top one is the old MB dogleg which has been on many a year. You can see that years ago I did take a Dremel to the underside to maximise the effective length of the pull. The one below is a Casa and the one at the bottom Scootopia. These are the only three I have at the moment.

The measured pull, as per what AF say, is between 9-11mm on all three.

The cable is an MB braided one and is pretty new, less than a couple of hundred miles. The pivot hole is fine with no play. The grip is a standard GP. The cable routing is okay, albeit that the carb is TS1 side with the cable under the float bowl.

The measured pull on my other scooter with the Chiselspeed set up and Casa “big ball” lever is easily 15mm. I think it was Casa lever. I know it was ordered from Rimini when I had to order some other parts from them.

If anyone wishes to share their own measurements and levers, feel free

[Storkfoot]

Further to my post above, this is a picture of the lever on my other scooter with the Chiselspeed set up.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I’m going to have a look at the cable routing, particularly in the headset. I am also going to try the Casa large ball ended lever (I have that on my other scooter and whilst it is a bit big for my small hands, it does, maybe, give more pull). I was also thinking of trying the old clutch arm.

I don’t want to put people off trying this product. It has lessened the amount of force needed to depress the clutch. Perhaps, with my knowledge of the Chiselspeed arrangement, I was just expecting a bit too much.

Have you tried the Serveta dogleg levers? I'm not certain they give any greater leverage, but I like the fact that they are short levers (not over-length sticking out) whilst also enabling good clutch control with the small-hand-friendly-span. I really ought to compare some I have with OEM Innocenti

(My previous comments about the product were to principally express surprise that the remit was not only to introduce a product requiring less mechanical effort, but if any other 'whistles & bells' were there for the taking, then more pull was what I had anticipated to better suit clutches requiring greater separation)

[coaster]

The means by which this was achieved was by shortening (cut & weld) the OEM actuator arm/lever &/or setting it @ an angle considerably further back than the 90° suggested. It doesn't make for an easier pull @ the lever, but it does gain the necessary separation to avoid clutch drag, in itself the common cause of gear tooth breakages.

For anybody doubting the logic, think about a piston @ TDC & how little it will move for quite a lot of angular crankshaft rotation either side. Moving the actuator arm/lever to a more acute angle is the same principle but in reverse. An actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement when you are invariably looking for more, not less

Even if anybody fails to understand the science, it's worth giving it a try as all that is required is the re-siting of the arm & corresponding adjustment of the trunion. Then, if you like that, have I ever mentioned using ATF?

The maximum leverage is applied whan the arm is at rightangles to the cable so be carefull about moving too far back

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

The means by which this was achieved was by shortening (cut & weld) the OEM actuator arm/lever &/or setting it @ an angle considerably further back than the 90° suggested. It doesn't make for an easier pull @ the lever, but it does gain the necessary separation to avoid clutch drag, in itself the common cause of gear tooth breakages.

For anybody doubting the logic, think about a piston @ TDC & how little it will move for quite a lot of angular crankshaft rotation either side. Moving the actuator arm/lever to a more acute angle is the same principle but in reverse. An actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement when you are invariably looking for more, not less

Even if anybody fails to understand the science, it's worth giving it a try as all that is required is the re-siting of the arm & corresponding adjustment of the trunion. Then, if you like that, have I ever mentioned using ATF?

The maximum leverage is applied whan the arm is at rightangles to the cable so be carefull about moving too far back

"Maximum leverage" in what context? Easier effort? Greater angular movement? What do you mean?

In my previous comments I have explained why the actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement whereas I believe many of us are looking for more!

I suggest that if you were to sketch things out on paper, you might gain a different opinion to the one you currently hold.

[Storkfoot]

I’m going to have a look at the cable routing, particularly in the headset. I am also going to try the Casa large ball ended lever (I have that on my other scooter and whilst it is a bit big for my small hands, it does, maybe, give more pull). I was also thinking of trying the old clutch arm.

I don’t want to put people off trying this product. It has lessened the amount of force needed to depress the clutch. Perhaps, with my knowledge of the Chiselspeed arrangement, I was just expecting a bit too much.

Have you tried the Serveta dogleg levers? I'm not certain they give any greater leverage, but I like the fact that they are short levers (not over-length sticking out) whilst also enabling good clutch control with the small-hand-friendly-span. I really ought to compare some I have with OEM Innocenti

(My previous comments about the product were to principally express surprise that the remit was not only to introduce a product requiring less mechanical effort, but if any other 'whistles & bells' were there for the taking, then more pull was what I had anticipated to better suit clutches requiring greater separation)

I do understand what you mean about the product and, no, I haven’t tried the Serveta dog leg levers. I have used one in the past so I know what they are like.

In an attempt to clarify what I am trying to achieve. Previously, I had a clutch I was very pleased with and a lever that was okay for me. It wasn’t too strong. Since June last year, however, the strength in my left hand is not what it once was. That is why I purchased the AF Multi Clutch, thinking that it would provide me with a clutch that was perhaps very slightly lighter than standard.

On setting the AF Multi Clutch up, I had a clutch that was marginally lighter but was dragging or on the edge of dragging all the time.

On seeing AF’s instructions, and having tried three levers, I can see the logic in what they say about the cable travelling 15mm. I believe that the easiest way to achieve this is via a different lever at the headset. But, I may well be wrong

My clutch arm is set just behind 90 degrees so that it is 90 degrees when the clutch is actuated. That’s the way I have always done it.

From where I am now, in my perfect world, I want:

1. A lever that my little mitts can cope with.
2. A clutch mechanism of no harder than standard.
3. A clutch that doesn’t drag or, at least, doesn’t require such fine, fine margins to avoid drag

[Storkfoot]

My standard series 3 with thimble clutch pulls the clutch inner cable 15mm.

So, now I want to try a lynx dog leg lever and one of these, which I am pretty certain is the one I have on my GP with the Chiselspeed easy clutch:

https://www.riminilambrettacentre.com/e ... gp-dl.html

Beyond that, I can only think of taking the clutch cable out of the headset end and the clutch arm end, and trying another cable outside of the body of the scooter. My thinking is that I should then find out if the cable routing is the issue.

Then, I could try a shortened clutch arm but most of me is thinking that life is too short and just get out and ride the thing

[coaster]

The means by which this was achieved was by shortening (cut & weld) the OEM actuator arm/lever &/or setting it @ an angle considerably further back than the 90° suggested. It doesn't make for an easier pull @ the lever, but it does gain the necessary separation to avoid clutch drag, in itself the common cause of gear tooth breakages.

For anybody doubting the logic, think about a piston @ TDC & how little it will move for quite a lot of angular crankshaft rotation either side. Moving the actuator arm/lever to a more acute angle is the same principle but in reverse. An actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement when you are invariably looking for more, not less

Even if anybody fails to understand the science, it's worth giving it a try as all that is required is the re-siting of the arm & corresponding adjustment of the trunion. Then, if you like that, have I ever mentioned using ATF?

The maximum leverage is applied whan the arm is at rightangles to the cable so be carefull about moving too far back

"Maximum leverage" in what context? Easier effort? Greater angular movement? What do you mean?

In my previous comments I have explained why the actuator arm/lever set @ 90° or thereabouts will give the least angular movement whereas I believe many of us are looking for more!

I suggest that if you were to sketch things out on paper, you might gain a different opinion to the one you currently hold.

I wasnt questioning your explanation, mearly pointing out that the increased stroke will make the pull harder so something to be aware of.

[Storkfoot]

I’m going to have a look at the cable routing, particularly in the headset. I am also going to try the Casa large ball ended lever (I have that on my other scooter and whilst it is a bit big for my small hands, it does, maybe, give more pull). I was also thinking of trying the old clutch arm.

I don’t want to put people off trying this product. It has lessened the amount of force needed to depress the clutch. Perhaps, with my knowledge of the Chiselspeed arrangement, I was just expecting a bit too much.

Have you tried the Serveta dogleg levers? I'm not certain they give any greater leverage, but I like the fact that they are short levers (not over-length sticking out) whilst also enabling good clutch control with the small-hand-friendly-span. I really ought to compare some I have with OEM Innocenti

(My previous comments about the product were to principally express surprise that the remit was not only to introduce a product requiring less mechanical effort, but if any other 'whistles & bells' were there for the taking, then more pull was what I had anticipated to better suit clutches requiring greater separation)

I do understand what you mean about the product and, no, I haven’t tried the Serveta dog leg levers. I have used one in the past so I know what they are like.

In an attempt to clarify what I am trying to achieve. Previously, I had a clutch I was very pleased with and a lever that was okay for me. It wasn’t too strong. Since June last year, however, the strength in my left hand is not what it once was. That is why I purchased the AF Multi Clutch, thinking that it would provide me with a clutch that was perhaps very slightly lighter than standard.

On setting the AF Multi Clutch up, I had a clutch that was marginally lighter but was dragging or on the edge of dragging all the time.

On seeing AF’s instructions, and having tried three levers, I can see the logic in what they say about the cable travelling 15mm. I believe that the easiest way to achieve this is via a different lever at the headset. But, I may well be wrong

My clutch arm is set just behind 90 degrees so that it is 90 degrees when the clutch is actuated. That’s the way I have always done it.

From where I am now, in my perfect world, I want:

1. A lever that my little mitts can cope with.
2. A clutch mechanism of no harder than standard.
3. A clutch that doesn’t drag or, at least, doesn’t require such fine, fine margins to avoid drag

I did try the Serveta Lynx dog leg lever. It did pull the cable a further millimetre, or so, but the cable operation was stiffer than with the MB lever. As the Casa levers that I’d like to try are out of stock everywhere, including in Mainland Europe, I’ll stick with the MB lever in the knowledge that it needs to be very precisely adjusted.