My first restoration: TV175 Ser 3

[911hillclimber]

Thank you for the help.
The bulb shows no brightness change on my original or the other one from Dickie, quite a chance both are broken?
I hope Readspeed can check it all over. I have no idea how to check a magneto for function.

It is a worry that the bulb shows no change.
If the mag is done for then I might go electronic, but really wanted to stay standard.
We will see tomorrow.

[Dimitrios_231]

No need to go electronic,contact co-member Mr. Pugwash,Captain Pugwash ,he'll be able (when he'll have spare time) to fix your stator (if it is broken).
He is my stator Guru
His work is top level,you won't regret it

[CHRIS in MARGATE]

.I have been working on Lambretta engines since the 1960's. Never got on with the light. Fag paper every time always sufficed. 16 degrees too far retarded. Advance to 18/19.
Bite the bullet ...... Go electronic. It's not defeatist, it's practical.

[911hillclimber]

Today I read somewhere that due to poor fuel compared to 1964 Britain that these engines need to be set back more than back then and 19 was a risky setting?

On the electronic thing, as said by me many time at the very start I would change my mind many times!

One thing I can't quite grasp is the TOTAL cost of conversion, and having just bought a new 6 volt loom, is that destined for the Sale section on here?

Thank you for the lead on fixing the mag if it is kaput.

[Dimitrios_231]

In the sixties static timing was around 23 degrees,nowadays 19 is more common for standard engines.
No need to change the loom,it can be used both for 6V and 12V setups.

[911hillclimber]

So, for about £150 bolted in and ready to strobe time, fit and forget.

I need to get a coil yet as I have the 1964 coil, so that's 30 ish for a modern one to come.
Might be best to cut my losses and run.

[rossclark]

The conversion for electronic ignition is usually a kit that will include stator, flywheel, CDI, regulator or rectifier (depending on AC or DC, respectively).

You can buy it to suit a TV/Li Crank or for the (stronger) GP crank. if your crank is standard TV and OK and you're not planning to tune it should be fine, but if you want to go for the GP crank then you need to factor in crank (£100 - whatever), bearings/seals (£30).

I think you said before your motor was standard 175 and you'd got a new barrel, if so then the conrod is different so you'd need to consider that too as a shorter rod it might mean a change of the top end kit.

[911hillclimber]

The standard engine is built and will stay as a stock TV 175.
Having slept on it I think I will see if Readspeed can check the mag and if ok set the timing today.
If the mag is done for I see they do their (short crank taper) electronic 12v kit for 160 which I think includes vat and will have one if in stock and be done with this faffing-about so I can move on. If not too expensive might get them to fit and time it up so the engine is then ready to fit.

I'm not noted for being patient...

May I say how grateful I am for all the help from everyone, and I've only just started!
Good forum this.

[Adam_Winstone]

Yes, as Dimitrios has already said, don't be lead into changing away from your 6V loom if you decide to go 12V electronic as you simply swap out the 6V junction box or regulator (whether AC or DC) and fit a 12V junction box, which immediately makes everything common for the single 12V supply, other than the 2 ignition greens that remain paired. Keeping the original 6V loom and simply swapping the junction box means that you can easily swap back at any time to the 6V setup, without having to change the loom again! Also, many of the simplified 12V looms have cheap and nasty connectors fitted

NB: Fitting electronic does mean that you do not need to worry about maintenance (providing it doesn't fail) and the regulator that the 12V system uses means that you have great lights/horn and are less likely to blow bulbs as it is a regulated supply. However, points systems can still provide good service, just as they did back in the day. Another benefit of going electronic is that the flywheel magnetism should be good as it will be fairly recently manufactured, whereas, old points flywheels often have lost magnetism over time and you should consider having it remagnetised anyway, which is an additional cost to consider when thinking about keeping your points system.

Adam

[911hillclimber]

Good details Adam, and I thank you.
Made my mind up to fit electronic/12v this morning.

Readspeed is a great place, no wonder people on here sing their praises, but Gerome is on hols and the other tech (Steve?) is on hols today, so came back with the engine but a lot of advice. Will certainly take the scooter there for tune-up when done/MoT all in one stop, great.

Found some advice on checking the mag on Cambridge Lambretta's site, and according to the resistance values my Mag is dead or rather open circuit. No resistance on the green or yellow wires.
So, getting the kit this afternoon from Willenhall Scooters and that will be that.

Bought the steel to make my assembly table and might have found a chromer too!

[911hillclimber]

We all know the RULES of this great Forum, and I've been in trouble once already!

The range of Electronic kits is a bit confusing from Cheap to 'Re-assuringly Expensive'

I'm not at all sure which is the best (reliability/stability/ price) so I ask you real users to PM me please on the duff ones?
The big suppliers seem to have put together a group of parts that they feel are the best V price

some of them are £180+ and the cheap ones £90.
I imagine you get what you pay for, but I could do with a few guidelines please, but by PM only.

[CHRIS in MARGATE]

Graham I have bought quite a few things from the supplier you mentioned, very quick delivery and never had a problem. He has a good feedback score on Ebay and I will buy from there again.
Most of the electronic kits are of Indiam origin amyway so I think there is a wide variation on price mark up.
I have even bought direct from Delhi; quicker delivery than some in the UK.
Like many I carry a spare stator plate just in case, about £30.

[HxPaul]

I use an Indian 12v system on both of my scooters.The last one I bought from SR in Nottingham.I got the complete kit,12v stator plate,flywheel,Ducati cdi box and Ducati regulator.The complete kit was £135 plus p&p.Ive found them to be very reliable kits,rather rough and not very good to look at,but they work very well.

[coaster]

Hi Hillclimber911, I have just been contacted by someone off the Scooterotica forum (very similar to this site but caters for Vespas as well and is a bit more tuning orientated) who has read your thread but as he isn't a LCGB member, can't reply directly. He asks that I pass on this advice as it will be stopping the timing light method from working.

"Hi Colin, looking to help a member on the lcgb, but I'm not a member.
911hillclimber is trying to time his tv175. Can you ask him if he is disconnecting the green stator wire while he is doing this. If he isn't then the ignition switch (in the off position) will be probably be the reason why the light isn't dimming
Kev.

[911hillclimber]

Kev:
That is very helpful of you!

The engine is out of the scooter so the 4 wires are all 'free' of the scooter electrics.

The light-bulb testing I've tried is so:

12 volt battery fully charged
12 volt instrument bulb from one of my million bits in the garage 'collection' in a holder. 2 wires connected to it and tested to work ok by voltmeter.
Wire from the +ve battery to the bulb, then from the bulb to the green wire. All other 3 mag wires not touching anything.
Wire from the engine case to the -ve on the battery.

Points set at a tight 0.4mm (0.3mm will go in) feeler gauge, new points and condenser.

Connect everything and the bulb glows bright.
Rotate the crank any number of turns and the bulb never changes in brightness.

Have after this had been attempted many times used the paper-between-the-points method to find the opening of the points and it shows 17 deg advance.

Have changed my original stator for another with its original condenser/points (same flywheel as above) and same result.

I think I have done all this in accord with Stickys book (advanced engine section) where his engine is also free on the bench.
He describes wiring the bulb tester as I have done.

In the LCGB info side the bulb is wired on the negative side of the battery, principle is still the same, you find the points open with a change of bulb brightness.

One puzzle for me is if I put my voltmeter on buzzer, there is a continuity across the point pads open or closed. I have thought that the spring screw was earthing down but I'm sure the insulation discs are in place. The spare stator I have does this too.

[grandpa]

Hi Hillclimber,
If you set your meter to the lowest setting of ohms(200 on my digital meter) and measure between the green wire from stator and earth it will read 1.5 ohms with points open and .7 ohm with points closed approx. I would check the insulation spacers on the points and try another condenser.If you hold green wire close to earth and spin the flywheel in a dark garage you should see a spark this will prove points are working.I set my timing with an analogue meter and watch the very slight deflection of the needle when points open, but check later with strobe light.
grandpa

[911hillclimber]

Thanks, I will try that tomorrow morning.
I did try to use the buzzer mode in the DVM to detect the points opening, it worked but was not reliable.
I put the DVM on lowest setting of resistance and the reading was zero.

It seems strange that there is a continuity across the points open or closed!
The spare mag points are the same...

After a lifetime on the web this afternoon, the Beedspeed or AF electronic kit seem the best, SIP and Ducati parts and a lightened flywheel, reasonable prices too.

Back to the bulb, Stickys book says nothing about the other 3 wires, should they be connected or something during this bench testing?

[coaster]

Don't worry about the other wires, they concern lights and charging. Try the battery the other way round as per the LCGB site, perhaps the capacitor is charging and confusing things?

Colin

[Dimitrios_231]

One puzzle for me is if I put my voltmeter on buzzer, there is a continuity across the point pads open or closed. I have thought that the spring screw was earthing down but I'm sure the insulation discs are in place. The spare stator I have does this too.

I think (not 100% sure) that this is normal,
I'll check it tommorow.

[dickie]

Er, I'm confused by this too. Check the resistance across the points with everything disconnected.

They should show open circuit or infinity when open. There will be a second or so of settling while the condenser charges, but no longer.