Fuel grade recommendations!?

[Dobo]

Fellow members. The current discussion in Norfolk is about best fuel grade, 95 v 97, and the question of additives which manufacturers are using. 'Sticky' says use 95octane what say you?

[CHRIS in MARGATE]

I'd say he's WRONG. Use highest octane available if your ignition timing isn't retarded beyond 16 degrees btdc !!

[Gary Harwood]

I always use super grade - but not from Shell as theirs has a high ethanol content. I get BP whenever I can.

[Vega125s]

This may help:
BP Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol at all sites across the UK. BP Ultimate (super unleaded petrol) does not have Ethanol added, except in the South West of England.

Esso Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol at most sites in the UK. Esso Super Unleaded petrol does not contain Ethanol, except in the South West of England (Devon & Cornwall)

Shell Shell has repeatedly refused to answer the question. It is therefore an assumption only, that all Shell petrol should be considered to contain 5% Ethanol.

Texaco Ethanol is added at 5% to unleaded petrol. Texaco Super Unleaded petrol does not contain Ethanol.

Total Ethanol is not added to any Total fuel (including standard unleaded petrol). Except in the North West and South East of England.

Total have kindly provided a list of filling stations where E0 petrol can still be purchased. Click this link to download the list TOTAL E0 Fuel Sites.xls

As far as I can gather, the only reason that the super unleaded fuels seem to be ethanol free is because it is harder to obtain the fuel quality required for super unleaded if Ethanol is present. However several of the oil companies told me that this will change in the future but that no date has been set.

[gaz_powell]

My experience

I always use standard unleaded.

First fill up is always Morrisons - 17 degree static timing (done using positive stop method only) using rebuilt SIL stator and flywheel on 2x home built TS1s - both have SIL heads converted by Chiselspeed.

Having read the recent reports - I tried to avoid shell but had no choice coming home from Cleethorpes - did the last 35miles no problems.

Gaz

[Sticky]

These are the reasons why I suggest 95:

1. If you have your bike set-up to run on 95 you aren't going to find yourself stranded if you go to a garage and can't get Super
2. Fuel degrades in octane the longer it sits in the tanks. 95 is in constant demand so it will be refreshed regularly and will probably be 95 grade when you buy it. If you fill from a 97 pump and the fuel has been sat for ages because of low demand then it might be 97 or it might have degraded below 95 and be contaminated.
3. The most fuel-related problems me and my friends have experienced in the last decade have all been with Super Plus.

Only going on experience, but there it is!

[dscscotty]

I started using un-leaded @ 95 octane a few years before 4 star was phased out , so was ready long before many of my riding companions for the change and the problems associated with low octane un-leaded fuels. Since then I have always used 95 octane without any major problems, if you're set up for a higher octane surely you'll be more likely to run into problems if you reduce the octane and quality of fuel, however going the other way and increasing shouldn't be an issue.

[jonw]

97, as Eden says, it reduces the chance of det.

[Donnie]

Tescos and Sainsburys normal unleaded all day long for me, have done for a decade, only time I use anything else is on the way or back on rallies, then its whatevers at the side of the road, but again, normal unleaded.

[Simon ELC]

The nearest petrol station to me is ASDA. I have been using their 95 ron fuel as my first choice for the last ten years with no issues . (TS1,RB and Dragster). The only problems I've encountered with mate's scooters in my area have been with BP and Shell high octane brands.

As an aside. After reading scare stories about the quality of fuel on the Continent seven of us had no issues with fuel riding to and from Davos through France. Avoiding anything labelled E10 of course.

[MK Monty]

so what are we all going to do when they roll out E10
I better get a few pistons in I think

[maddogmadox]

so what are we all going to do when they roll out E10
I better get a few pistons in I think

you are already going through enough of them monty

[Captain Pugwash]

so what are we all going to do when they roll out E10
I better get a few pistons in I think

I have run my old TS 1 engine on E10 it ran ok and didn't get too hot.

[MickYork]

95 for me (or what-evers cheapest !).

Coming back from Shipston 3 of us pulled into Woodhall services on the M1. Quite funny as we saw the Shell sign and all glanced nervously at each other. All filled up and no problems.

i'm sure there's a line of thought that Ethanol isn't the problem it's the other additives that cause issues ?

[parky]

Why does Esso super unleaded in the South West have ethanol added but not in the rest of the country?

[HxPaul]

These are the reasons why I suggest 95:

1. If you have your bike set-up to run on 95 you aren't going to find yourself stranded if you go to a garage and can't get Super
2. Fuel degrades in octane the longer it sits in the tanks. 95 is in constant demand so it will be refreshed regularly and will probably be 95 grade when you buy it. If you fill from a 97 pump and the fuel has been sat for ages because of low demand then it might be 97 or it might have degraded below 95 and be contaminated.
3. The most fuel-related problems me and my friends have experienced in the last decade have all been with Super Plus.

Only going on experience, but there it is!

What fuel related problems did your friends have with Super Plus ? The reason I ask is,yesterday I put 5 litres of 97 octane in my scooter.This was from a Shell garage.I usually use 95 octane from Sainsbury's.Last night I rode to Skipton to a multi-meet and on the by pass I was travelling at about 50mph and decided to open the throttle to about 60mph,when I did this all I got was a lot of noise and no extra speed,in fact it began to slow down,so I backed the throttle off and the noise went and the scooter returned to 50mph with no noise.The noise seemed to be coming from the induction side.My scooter has a Casa 185 nikasil kit and I'm worried I may have caused some damage to the bore,the scooter ran ok for the rest of the night.Could this have been caused by the petrol.

Paul.

[Rich Oswald]

These are the reasons why I suggest 95:

1. If you have your bike set-up to run on 95 you aren't going to find yourself stranded if you go to a garage and can't get Super
2. Fuel degrades in octane the longer it sits in the tanks. 95 is in constant demand so it will be refreshed regularly and will probably be 95 grade when you buy it. If you fill from a 97 pump and the fuel has been sat for ages because of low demand then it might be 97 or it might have degraded below 95 and be contaminated.
3. The most fuel-related problems me and my friends have experienced in the last decade have all been with Super Plus.

Only going on experience, but there it is!

What fuel related problems did your friends have with Super Plus ? The reason I ask is,yesterday I put 5 litres of 97 octane in my scooter.This was from a Shell garage.I usually use 95 octane from Sainsbury's.Last night I rode to Skipton to a multi-meet and on the by pass I was travelling at about 50mph and decided to open the throttle to about 60mph,when I did this all I got was a lot of noise and no extra speed,in fact it began to slow down,so I backed the throttle off and the noise went and the scooter returned to 50mph with no noise.The noise seemed to be coming from the induction side.My scooter has a Casa 185 nikasil kit and I'm worried I may have caused some damage to the bore,the scooter ran ok for the rest of the night.Could this have been caused by the petrol.

Paul.

Sounds more like your clutch was slipping Paul, I think people are far too quick to blame fuel for a lot of mechanical problems, not saying it wasn't the fuel but it sounds unlikely.

Rich'

[Binny]

In answer to HXPaul I experienced identical symptoms when using Shell 97 octane (Optimax) on a race Rapido a couple of years ago. When I took the plug out it was coated in alloy deposits and when I stripped the engine there was a sizeable crater developing on the piston crown. The engine had done hundreds of miles previously without issue and consequently I have avoided Shell 97 octane fuel ever since. I just can't see that the problems I encountered were due to anything other than the fuel.

[HxPaul]

Well I removed the plug and there were no alloy deposits on it,although it did look to have been running a little lean (the plug colour was a light sandy colour).I turned the engine until the piston was at TDC, then I used a long thin screwdriver and inserted it through the plug hole and with the tip of the screwdriver I could feel all around the dome of the piston,all seemed ok.I have put in a new plug,drained all the petrol in the tank and replaced it with 95 from the garage I always use.I'll run it for a few miles and see if the plug colour returns to a chocolate brown colour.

Paul.

[HxPaul]

It looks like I've found the problem.I took the engine out and removed the cylinder head,the bore was unmarked much to my relief and the top of the piston was unmarked to.I then removed the flywheel followed by the stator plate and the crank was covered in grease.It looks like the oil seals had failed and spat the grease out from the mag bearing and also sucking air in making the engine run lean.So the optimax petrol wasn't the culprit,but I'm still not going to use it again.

Paul