186 Muggello running in

[Lambr62]

Is it necessary to re-torque head after 100 miles? Wanted a second opinion as it mentions this in the running in instructions. Thanks for any advice.

[Tractorman]

There will be some conflicting opinions on this but I do not believe it is necessary especially after only 100 miles.

[johnnyXS]

I expect that tractorman is right ....there usually is conflicting views about just about everything

I recently rebuilt a Yamaha XS650 engine and after scarcely 125 miles found the head gasket starting to leak due to loose stud nuts. Luckily I caught it in time and a quick retorque has held tight ever since.
Once a new engine has reached full operating temperature and then cooled ,all the different metals have expanded and contracted and there is bound to be a slight change in torque on some fixings .

I would say that it costs nothing but a little time and is easy enough to do . Preventative maintenance is always better than repair

[HxPaul]

I have a series 2 and 3,both have Casa 185 top ends.When I built them I run them both through 3 heat cycles and then re-torqued them.I did this after seeing a post from Eden in which he says that this is how he does it.I have since done about 3000 miles on each of them and to date they've both been ok.

[Donnie]

Is it necessary to re-torque head after 100 miles? Wanted a second opinion as it mentions this in the running in instructions. Thanks for any advice.

So you're going to ignore the running in instructions?

YES is the answer to retorquing any alloy kit after 50 to 100 miles, yes its a pain but it will save you posting in a few months that youve holed your piston due to an airleak.

[HxPaul]

Just as a matter of interest,whats the difference between an alloy kit and a cast iron one when it comes to re-torquing.

[Donnie]

I was always told that alloy ones due to their rapid heat dissapation etc were more likely to expand / contract more therefore putting different pressures or stresses on the cylinder studs and hence nuts.

Ive always retorqued mine after the 100 miles or so and always found they needed it too

[Tractorman]

I checked the first two or three I had torque up after a couple of hundred miles without any need to do it so I've not done so since. I friend took his new GP to a reputable dealer for it's first check over and they did not check the head torque, unless they did it without removing the head cowling.

[burnside]

Surely after fitting a new kit it is sensible to check everything over after the 1st 100 miles? Re-torque the head, check exhaust fitting at joins and manifold, etc.? Even if everything is fine it is worth it for piece of mind.

[Toddy]

Surely after fitting a new kit it is sensible to check everything over after the 1st 100 miles? Re-torque the head, check exhaust fitting at joins and manifold, etc.? Even if everything is fine it is worth it for piece of mind.

+1

[johnnyXS]

theres no getting away from it it is a faff to have to remove the engine cowling to retorque the nuts but if it were me I'd run a new engine for a few miles to thoroughly warm the engine up and let it completely cool down again several times then retorque the head and then put the cowl and other stuff back on.
Theres no way a new engine is going to overheat without a cowl in this weather whilst its being carefully run in with extra oil mix 4% maybe and avoiding high revs and heavy loading.

[Adam_Winstone]

I never strip and re-torque the head and never have issue. However, I make sure that I always fit decent 'chunky' spring washers and do my best to sort out squish so that I don't have to use a head gasket. The recent trend (last decade or so) to fit flat washers only is fairly new and has coincided with needing to re-torque... as the head tends to come loose after repeated heat/cool cycles.

To my knowledge, the Innocenti service schedule didn't ask for head to be re-torqued, unless a decoke was being carried out.

Adam

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Arguably, the most stressed engines are those used for racing.

In those circumstances, an engine may be built meticulously & will need to be powerful & reliable.

The opportunity for re-torquing may be available, but I am unaware of anybody that does. I use a torque setting higher than the Innocenti recommendation @ my own risk, but, then again, I ensure the studs & crankcase holes are good & Studlocked in, taking care to avoid hydraulic lock when fitting. V*spa studs are excellent, begrudgingly They can be fitted with the longer threaded part in the crankcase, if the holes are deepened to suit, for more thread engagement if the holes are a little 'baggy'

Likewise, ‘running in’ is not a viable option, unless you consider a practice session taken @ a more leisurely pace, or a caning on the dyno to be ‘running in’

Personally, I’m unaware of head gaskets being used in such instances, as they are the most likely item to fail.

A properly torqued assembly, utilising a good sealant along with high grade fasteners & thick, hard, plain washers has served many of us well for decades.

At the risk of repeating what I, along with others, have said previously, adding extra oil weakens the mixture.....

[johnnyXS]

A

At the risk of repeating what I, along with others, have said previously, adding extra oil weakens the mixture.....

its not that simple

yes it does .......but that is not necessarily any reason to add less oil to your petrol oil mix ratio during running in period.

Every engine needs to be assessed individually . A aluminium race engine is going to have vastly different lubrication and performance requirements to a standard road going cast iron engine used for commuting.

The correct oil /petrol mix % ratio depends on lots of things including the carburettor used, the type of oil , altitude, state of tune, type of use , etc etc
Provided due care and attention is given to the timing and fuel mixture at all throttle positions and running in method there should be no problems with seizing , blown pistons or other catastrophic engine failure

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Post by johnnyXS » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:29 pm

theres no getting away from it it is a faff to have to remove the engine cowling to retorque the nuts but if it were me I'd run a new engine for a few miles to thoroughly warm the engine up and let it completely cool down again several times then retorque the head and then put the cowl and other stuff back on.
Theres no way a new engine is going to overheat without a cowl in this weather whilst its being carefully run in with extra oil mix 4% maybe and avoiding high revs and heavy loading.

Post by johnnyXS » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:34 pm

Warkton Tornado No.1 wrote:
A

At the risk of repeating what I, along with others, have said previously, adding extra oil weakens the mixture.....

its not that simple

yes it does .......but that is not necessarily any reason to add less oil to your petrol oil mix ratio during running in period.

Every engine needs to be assessed individually . A aluminium race engine is going to have vastly different lubrication and performance requirements to a standard road going cast iron engine used for commuting.

The correct oil /petrol mix % ratio depends on lots of things including the carburettor used, the type of oil , altitude, state of tune, type of use , etc etc
Provided due care and attention is given to the timing and fuel mixture at all throttle positions and running in method there should be no problems with seizing , blown pistons or other catastrophic engine failure

Presuming that an engine is well set up including safe, carburetion, it is a fact that adding extra oil weakens the mixture

My comment was a cautionary one, not to 'score points'

Adding extra oil is of questionable benefit. 'Running in means 'bedding in' or 'wearing in' so that high spots are worn away. Extra oil may well extend that period but to what benefit, I have no idea

[Lambr62]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of different opinions as was mentioned at the beginning there would be. I am not necessarily going to ignore the Running in instructions but wanted to hear opinions of others with more than likely more experience of this particular Kit and running in full stop. Thanks again.

[johnnyXS]

yes we are not disagreeing . The higher the ratio of additives the leaner the mixture and of course we are not just talking about oil here. These days petrol is being padded out with cheap detergents and other so called beneficial additives. All it is doing of course is reducing the octane level and emmision levels and making the petroleum Companies more profit.

When I first filled up my Li 150 back in 1967 a gallon of 105 octane petrol cost 2 shillings and threepence I wonder what the current octanes are.