Allow Scooter Riders to ride 300cc on provisional licence

[xenia1]

Only since the 90s i believe.
I was trying to gauge wether peoples dismissive views of the CBT was actually based on personal experience or
Assumption.

Ah, i see where youre coming from

[NorthernJordan]

I think the process is probably quite good at preventing people with zilch experience ride incredibly powerful machines. I think it would be wise to have something similar for car drivers, you can hypothetically pass your test at 17 in a micra and buy a ferrari.
Where the system for bikes really fall down is the new process of having to pass your full test on a 500cc bike to ride anything above a 125. Fine if you want to ride high capacity motorcycles, but of your desire is to ride relatively light weight bikes and Scooters, it might be a world away from what you are used to! I think the system was better when I passed my test, limited to 33bhp for 2 year after which you can ride any power bike. The great thing was I could complete the test on my T5, ideal for a scooter rider.

[dickie]

Personally I'm a fan of the cbt. Like many I rode for many years on a provisional licence without any training whatsoever. I also had a serious accident 7 days after getting my first bike (a 150 super) on the road. The accident was nothing to do with excess power (obviously) it was simply a case of not having enough skill or road sense.

When I eventually did my test (6 years later!) there was a lad on it for his seventh, yes seventh attempt at his cbt. He failed again and could really not ride a bike at all. Obviously he was disappointed but the process protected him and the wider public. It was also part of the reason that I can now ride properly.

It was bloody carnage before you had to do some training and there are still accidents but it's better now than it was.

Also I don't particularly believe that a 300 4 stroke single (for example) is any more dangerous than a 125 but the fact that you must undergo training to get these better bikes is a successful incentive for persuading people to take part.

Sermon over. There's a collection plate at the back.

[xenia1]

there was a lad on it for his seventh, yes seventh attempt at his cbt. .

Impossible to 'fail' cbt as its purely training, theres no test involved.
Having to keep renewing cbt may suit some people and thats fine but theres so many drawbacks, you cant use motorways or european roads and have the stigma of L plates. Insurance will also be lower with a full licence.

[burnside]

Just to put some of the above coments into perspective
How many of those who have posted above have done a CBT?

I did 2 CBTs before taking my full test and straight away asked myself why I didn't just do the test after the 1st time. Both times I did the CBT the standard of some taking theirs was shocking, granted that for some it was the 1st time they had ever ridden, but when it takes some lad 2 hours just to be able to have a modicum of control, i.e. accelerate smoothly and stop on a 50cc twist & go, then scrape through the 2 hours ride on the roads under supervision, would we really want him to then be able to go straight on and ride a 300cc on a dual carriageway?

Let's not forget a CBT is not a test, you do not pass or fail, it is basic training which incorporates a couple of hours riding around a yard followed by 2 hours riding on the road with an instructor, and unless you completely mess up you walk away with that certificate.

[burnside]

there was a lad on it for his seventh, yes seventh attempt at his cbt. .

Impossible to 'fail' cbt as its purely training, theres no test involved.
Having to keep renewing cbt may suit some people and thats fine but theres so many drawbacks, you cant use motorways or european roads and have the stigma of L plates. Insurance will also be lower with a full licence.

True, officially you do not pass or fail, you either gain the certificate or the instructor deems that you are not competent enough and require additional training, which in effect is passing or failing. Obviously depends on the trainer as some will set the bar higher than others, but you have to be truly hopeless to not get that certificate.

[Stevepshipley]

I did a cbt any found it useful and informative, for example lifesavers when coming off a roundabout etc. I think they're an essential part of learning to ride properly. And yes there was a kid in our group who wasn't deemed competent and didn't get a certificate.

Also I've ridden in groups where so called experienced riders, scooterists who passed a test 40/50 years ago, are dangerous and could do with a bit if cbt to sort them out. I don't go on big rideouts for that very reason.

[dickie]

there was a lad on it for his seventh, yes seventh attempt at his cbt. .

Impossible to 'fail' cbt as its purely training, theres no test involved.

There was when I did it in around 1993

[Donnie]

there was a lad on it for his seventh, yes seventh attempt at his cbt. .

Impossible to 'fail' cbt as its purely training, theres no test involved.
Having to keep renewing cbt may suit some people and thats fine but theres so many drawbacks, you cant use motorways or european roads and have the stigma of L plates. Insurance will also be lower with a full licence.

True, officially you do not pass or fail, you either gain the certificate or the instructor deems that you are not competent enough and require additional training, which in effect is passing or failing. Obviously depends on the trainer as some will set the bar higher than others, but you have to be truly hopeless to not get that certificate.

You've not met my daughter have you

[burnside]

Impossible to 'fail' cbt as its purely training, theres no test involved.
Having to keep renewing cbt may suit some people and thats fine but theres so many drawbacks, you cant use motorways or european roads and have the stigma of L plates. Insurance will also be lower with a full licence.

True, officially you do not pass or fail, you either gain the certificate or the instructor deems that you are not competent enough and require additional training, which in effect is passing or failing. Obviously depends on the trainer as some will set the bar higher than others, but you have to be truly hopeless to not get that certificate.

You've not met my daughter have you

Wasn't me honest

[kennystag]

There should be no stigma of using L plates we all had to use them for one vehicle or another.
Stag

[Donnie]

You've not met my daughter have you

Wasn't me honest

LOL

[Phil D]

No stigma attached to L plates at all everybody has to learn .
And if the anecdotal evidence is anything to go by I think the CBT was a step in the right direction ,and has stopped a few people buying a motorbike /scooter (and by by virtue of the fact they were unable to pass even the Certificate of BASIC Training ) and at best being seriously injured or worst killed.
It just seem ludicrous to me why anyone would want to not take training and pass the test to obtain a full licence .
Forget what we did in 1963 or whatever it's what the roads are like now that maters.Maybe I was lucky the guy who did my training was very good and I was glad I had past the test don't get me wrong I will admit I'm not the best on two wheels but feel confident and that comes with experience and training .

[shep65]

I think the process is probably quite good at preventing people with zilch experience ride incredibly powerful machines. I think it would be wise to have something similar for car drivers, you can hypothetically pass your test at 17 in a micra and buy a ferrari.
Where the system for bikes really fall down is the new process of having to pass your full test on a 500cc bike to ride anything above a 125. Fine if you want to ride high capacity motorcycles, but of your desire is to ride relatively light weight bikes and Scooters, it might be a world away from what you are used to! I think the system was better when I passed my test, limited to 33bhp for 2 year after which you can ride any power bike. The great thing was I could complete the test on my T5, ideal for a scooter rider.

You don't, you can take an A2 licence if you want and just ride bikes/scooters in that category.

[xenia1]

No stigma attached to L plates at all everybody has to learn .
And if the anecdotal evidence is anything to go by I think the CBT was a step in the right direction ,and has stopped a few people buying a motorbike /scooter (and by by virtue of the fact they were unable to pass even the Certificate of BASIC Training ) and at best being seriously injured or worst killed.
It just seem ludicrous to me why anyone would want to not take training and pass the test to obtain a full licence .
Forget what we did in 1963 or whatever it's what the roads are like now that maters.Maybe I was lucky the guy who did my training was very good and I was glad I had past the test don't get me wrong I will admit I'm not the best on two wheels but feel confident and that comes with experience and training .

..

What i meant by stigma is that generally an older person will more than likely have a full car licence who riding with just cbt would then have to go back to L plates but as you say we all had to learn once but imo the quicker you can throw away the L's the better.

[NorthernJordan]

I think the process is probably quite good at preventing people with zilch experience ride incredibly powerful machines. I think it would be wise to have something similar for car drivers, you can hypothetically pass your test at 17 in a micra and buy a ferrari.
Where the system for bikes really fall down is the new process of having to pass your full test on a 500cc bike to ride anything above a 125. Fine if you want to ride high capacity motorcycles, but of your desire is to ride relatively light weight bikes and Scooters, it might be a world away from what you are used to! I think the system was better when I passed my test, limited to 33bhp for 2 year after which you can ride any power bike. The great thing was I could complete the test on my T5, ideal for a scooter rider.

You don't, you can take an A2 licence if you want and just ride bikes/scooters in that category.

You still need to do the test on 400cc bike, completely different animal to any scooter.

[xenia1]

I think the process is probably quite good at preventing people with zilch experience ride incredibly powerful machines. I think it would be wise to have something similar for car drivers, you can hypothetically pass your test at 17 in a micra and buy a ferrari.
Where the system for bikes really fall down is the new process of having to pass your full test on a 500cc bike to ride anything above a 125. Fine if you want to ride high capacity motorcycles, but of your desire is to ride relatively light weight bikes and Scooters, it might be a world away from what you are used to! I think the system was better when I passed my test, limited to 33bhp for 2 year after which you can ride any power bike. The great thing was I could complete the test on my T5, ideal for a scooter rider.

You don't, you can take an A2 licence if you want and just ride bikes/scooters in that category.

You still need to do the test on 400cc bike, completely different animal to any scooter.

But very simple to ride. All 500cc bikes used by schools like the Kawasaki ER 500 are extremely user friendly and smaller and lightweight than 500cc bikes of old..