High output regulator options 120W ?

[Adam_Winstone]

Hi all,

Who is using which regulator with the higher output stators that are available these days? I am aware that the BGM stator is capable of putting out 120W but that most of the traditional Vespa type regulators put out 80W, with 'high output' similar items being listed as 96W output. I can only assume that the BGM regulator will handle the 120W output from the stator, however, I've had a couple of people suggesting that the BGM regulators are not as reliable, long-term, as the traditional Vespa type item (NB: hearsay but I do listen to the undercurrent, although taking it with a pinch of salt). This leaves me wondering what other options might be out there?

What are people using reliably, the BGM supplied regulator, the 96W type and simply sacrificing 1/4 or their potential output, other?

Cheers in advance.

Adam

PS - Please note that this is not intended to start an anti-BGM thread, I run and really like a number of their products, but would like any objective information regarding what people are reliably running for higher output, whether that product be BGM or not. Ta

[Fast n Furious]

Adam.....AC or DC regulation?

[Adam_Winstone]

AC

[Fast n Furious]

AC regulation can be either series or parallel(shunt).
Series AC regs tend to chop into the AC waveform to control the output voltage.
Shunt types (the most common) dump excessive voltage by placing a temporary short across the generator winding usually with a device called a Triac.
I'm not sure what method a typical "off the shelf" modern lamby regulator actually uses cos I've never used them but it can be assessed.
If the regulator gets hottish after a good run without the headlights on, then it's certainly a shunt type regulator. Virtually all the electrical power generated is above the regulation voltage, and this excess energy is consumed by the Triac where it turns it into heat.
Do the same test with the lights on and the regulator will barely get warm because the headlamp bulb is now reducing the work demand on the regulator. So, to minimise the demand on these type of regulators, it's best to run with the headlights on at all times, especially on long high speed runs. A spare bulb you will probably carry, A spare regulator you probably won't.

If it's a series type reg, then the opposite to the above will be the case. So the demand (heating effect) on the regulator will be proportional to the output loading.

With shunt regulation, it is important to have a regulator sized above the power output of the generator as it will be working its hardest when producing nothing (not particularly efficient). So, if you're fitting a 120W stator then you will need the 120W rated regulator to go with it and I'll simply wish you the best of luck guaranteeing that match!

The regulator's power rating is also associated with how well it can radiate heat from its aluminium casing.

[MickYork]

How much power does the scooter need ? With a 55 watt front lamp and LED rear is there a need for a 120w stator ? even if a few gadgets were added there still should be enough power with a standard 80/90 watt stator.

I run a BGM DC stator (with battery) but I aren't sure which version or the output

[Adam_Winstone]

Thanks for the replies guys. The detailed information provided gives food for thought, thanks.

How much does a scooter need? Just a little bit more that currently available IMO. I tend to run an LED rear and this cures most of the beam dipping when dropping revs and braking for corners at night, without which the typical 12V 80W AC system does a pretty good job of dipping the headlight. Indeed, many of my pals have also been going LED rear for the same reason. Recently, I was testing the jetting on a pal's bike at night (not ideal) and found that putting my foot on the rear brake lost most of the road ahead, until taking my foot back off the brake so that I could see where I was going!

The standard / typical 12V AC electronic systems are very close to doing everything required of them, hence my previous comment about rather having a reliable 12V AC system in preference over a 12V DC system that requires a battery (turns out it may not, which was news to me). However, IMO the typical system falls just slightly short of being ideal... and this little extra is what I'd like to deliver.

Thanks guys

Adam

[MK Monty]

Adam your comments about AC are of course spot on especially when most of us increase the front headlight from 35w upwards of 55. The old Lambretta system just doesn't pump out enough. Add to that it is AC so very few LEDswork as they should on AC. Most people I know have tried them and say they are no better than a filament bulb.
I know you are not a fan but the Wassel DC conversion ticks all the boxes. No flicker on Tickover. Better with even the smallest alarm battery but I ran with a capacitor about the sise of an AAbattery for years. The Wassel is the same size bolts in the same place it simply has 1 extra wire added to any stator. If you are in the middle of nowhere and it fails you put the extra wire to ground and you can borrow a standard regulator and everything works. I ran my first wassell bolted on top of a standard one for years just in case and now some 8 years later never had one fail. Having a battery on a bike that you are going to put in storage is no different to a kids toy. Disconnect it and use on the one you are riding.
I had one bike on Sorn for a year and it was fine but I use the key switch to disconnect everything. You don't need to trickle charge them but letting it drain away completely will kill an alarm battery. I turned my switch past off to sidelights and lost one. Still worked just wouldn't hold a charge. With the new generation of LED lamps Cree ones are amazing. Look out if you get the Cambus ones with the extra resistor fitted to simulate a fillant lamp so your car won't tell you the bulb has gone. You simply remove the resistor. You won't get the benefit of the lower wattage. My series one with a HID digital speedo indicators and more stop and tail lights work even with the engine not running. I can only show the light

[Adam_Winstone]

Hi MK,

It's not that I'm anti Wassel conversion so much as anti-battery. The conversion aspect of taking the lighting earth to a second wire is not an issue and something that I'm very happy to do myself. It really is just the idea of battery, battery maintenance, battery replacement, etc. that long-term has been a thorn in my side when running DC systems previously. If the Wassel conversion is capable of supplying DC straight to lighting circuit then it opens up new options and certainly is something that I'd entertain the idea of.

Thanks.

Adam

[gaz_powell]

Adam, there are some unbranded vespa type 3 pin regulators out there that allege 120W - Be interesting to see if the 120w claim is supported

[Adam_Winstone]

^... I need to get on the hunt for such an item. I don't suppose that you have seen these on line have you, possibly having a link?

Cheers Gaz

Adam

[gaz_powell]

Adam - see if this link works ...........

https://www.facebook.com/groups/10150089415380002/

if not its a bloke called Dave Stone from Newport, I think he maybe something to do with a scooter shop down there - £15.00 + postage

I`m a bit sceptical as it has only a sticker identifying 120W - a lot of people will just buy it as it boasts 120W (more the usual), and stick it on believing it......

As is the norm with type of thing, Ebay will be a wash with alleged 120W ones

[Adam_Winstone]

Yep, link worked, ta.

Hmmm, as you point out, not 100% convincing.

Ta

Adam

[gaz_powell]

be interesting to know if they are 120w as ive just bought a UNI 120W stator and am a firm user of AC

[Adam_Winstone]

^... please let me know if you buy / try one

Adam

[gaz_powell]

if I get one it will be a while before any results as its for an engine i`m just starting to collect parts for.....plus I needs a chassis !!

Not sure how you test/prove, other than in practice seeing if no drop in lighting etc

[citydaz]

perhaps we need a new thread to debate AC v DC?
Ive always thought it better to go for DC and have a battery, but i would be interested to understand why AC has its supporters.

[terryj]

anthony tambs is working on a 180 watts one
needs to us his external pickup and his 3 phase regulator though

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 940&type=3

[Fast n Furious]

The stator is only a part of the power issue.
Other factors, such as Magnetic flux density, Magnetic saturation and clearances between the magnets and the stator poles are then down to the flywheel.
I find that new flywheels with new stators, irrespective of their manufacture provide acceptable amounts of output to run the usual load level which is about 40W.
50+ year old original equipped scoots generally have quite poor lights. Getting these old flywheels re-magnetized is well worth the very low cost to do it.

[Fast n Furious]

perhaps we need a new thread to debate AC v DC?
Ive always thought it better to go for DC and have a battery, but i would be interested to understand why AC has its supporters.

I think if elastictrickery isn't your bag, then you need to KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid, as they say in the Army.
Lot's of people just find maintaining a battery model a pain in the proverbial.
Scoots with long range tanks need a re-engineered solution for a battery home. So AC gets browny points here.

AC has some drawbacks, mainly on tickover, but, in practice, they are livable. If that's you, then go for it.
If you want full lights available, without the engine running, or you plan to use a SIP speedo, or a 12VDC supplied ignition system, USB port( a good idea for those who do continental runs so you can charge the phone) and HID headlights, then a DC system would be the recommended option.