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Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Technical help for Series one, two and three Lambrettas. Models include the Li, Li Special, TV, SX, GP, Serveta and API/SIL models

Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Andyf » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:40 pm

coaster wrote:
IaninDorset wrote:It is a bone of contention and many schools of thought and opinion on this issue, I did remember seeing a quite good article pointing out that a standard Lambretta or Vespa engine really wasn't designed to take synthetics as the oils are thinner and don't stick to the liners and bearings well enough on a standard engine as well enough as a good mineral oil would


coaster wrote:
Andyf wrote:....is semi-synth deemed thick enough?


It has nothing to do with viscosity,




Viscosity = thickness of the oil and it doesn't make any difference to it's ability to lubricate, it gets heavily diluted by petrol after all ;)



"thinner" v "thickness". I think I get it.
acknowledging that it doesn't make financial sense, is there any detriment to using Synthetic in a standard or mildly-tuned engine?


it may be a silly question but..............is it only composite post-mix that coats the components or is there an element of separation as the heavier/stickier particles hit the metal surfaces?
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby peejay » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:15 am

Rich Oswald wrote:I have just ordered 20L of the Exol Lubetech Fully Synth for £76 using the discount code se001. Works out at £3.80 per litre with free postage. I think anyone will find that hard to beat for a top spec' fully synth racing oil.

Rich'


hi Rich
i've looked on line to order the oil from a lubetech agent, their price is £84. 90p with free postage.
i cannot see where you can add the discount code but then i'm not the smart cookie :lol:
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby mickyb » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:32 am

It's on the other forum!!
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby peejay » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:36 am

mickyb wrote:It's on the other forum!!


sorry Mike, you've lost me there, i have the code just don't know where to post it :)
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby rossclark » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:29 pm

I think you put it in as you check out
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby mainstand » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:54 am

I use groundsmans as well. Get it from Sheffield posted, work out cheap as chips. Done 4,500 miles this year using the stuff with no issues. Mind you when I stripped my top end down the other day it seemed a little dry for my liking, but that maybe because I have a reed block, so no waste.
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Rich Oswald » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:53 pm

peejay wrote:
Rich Oswald wrote:I have just ordered 20L of the Exol Lubetech Fully Synth for £76 using the discount code se001. Works out at £3.80 per litre with free postage. I think anyone will find that hard to beat for a top spec' fully synth racing oil.

Rich'


hi Rich
i've looked on line to order the oil from a lubetech agent, their price is £84. 90p with free postage.
i cannot see where you can add the discount code but then i'm not the smart cookie :lol:


Hi Peejay,

Just wondering about "Lubetech Agent", and why not Lubetech direct? That's maybe why there is no facility to put in the discount code. As said it comes up at checkout,

Rich'
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby peejay » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:15 am

thanks for info Rich, i'll be giving it a go soon :)
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby gaz_powell » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:53 am

this is where you buy http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/

there is discount code offered by another forum you can put in at checkout - or if you ring them they sort it out :lol:
Last edited by gaz_powell on Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Andyf » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:56 pm

Andyf wrote:
coaster wrote:
Andyf wrote:....is semi-synth deemed thick enough?


It has nothing to do with viscosity,




is there any detriment to using Synthetic in a standard or mildly-tuned engine?


there's another thread running and apparently it is definitely NOT a good idea. leads to sticky rings, and heavy sooting! among other things
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby sunrisemac » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:25 pm

Synthetic and semi-synthetic both provide better protection at low temperature, which is when most wear is likely to occur, i.e. start up from cold, let alone the tremendous protection that is provided to high speed running engines.

IMHO, it's worth remembering what issue premix ratio is addressing, it is to keep an oil presence inside the engine during use.

For an engine that is continually used at near peak revs it will need a higher ratio of oil than an engine that is running for the majority of the time at a more modest rev range.

With that in mind, as Eden has alluded, to if an engine is not being used hard enough to burn the oil then gummed rings will probably be a consequence.

The top end of a 2 stroke engine will wear better with a good soaking of lighter oil whereas the crank and bearings which will do better with less but heavier oil, the top end is where I reckon the priority lies in the choice and ratio of oil used.

As long as the oil ratio is suitable for the use the engine is put to there is no reason to assume that synthetic or semi synthetic will gum rings and cause sooting any more than a good mineral oil.
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby rossclark » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:52 pm

gaz_powell wrote:this is where you buy http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/

the discount code of se001 goes in at checkout - or if you ring them they sort it out



That's a little cheeky posting their 'members' forum discount code on another site :P
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Andyf » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:12 pm

sunrisemac wrote:Synthetic and semi-synthetic both provide better protection at low temperature, which is when most wear is likely to occur, i.e. start up from cold, let alone the tremendous protection that is provided to high speed running engines.

IMHO, it's worth remembering what issue premix ratio is addressing, it is to keep an oil presence inside the engine during use.

For an engine that is continually used at near peak revs it will need a higher ratio of oil than an engine that is running for the majority of the time at a more modest rev range.

With that in mind, as Eden has alluded, to if an engine is not being used hard enough to burn the oil then gummed rings will probably be a consequence.

The top end of a 2 stroke engine will wear better with a good soaking of lighter oil whereas the crank and bearings which will do better with less but heavier oil, the top end is where I reckon the priority lies in the choice and ratio of oil used.

As long as the oil ratio is suitable for the use the engine is put to there is no reason to assume that synthetic or semi synthetic will gum rings and cause sooting any more than a good mineral oil.


nice one.

so, as I buy Synthetic for my tuned 225 (4%), it will be okay to put it in the standard 150 but I should stick to a lower %age?
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby sunrisemac » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:39 pm

I can only put down my opinion and the bits I have written before are results that have been found by a lot of research on 2 stroke engines in the past by folk far more knowledgeable than me.

My experience with Lammie engines is limited to the SX150 that I have rebuilt and run in my GP it runs with fully synthetic so far at a ratio of 3% with no apparent problems, I have only done 1300 miles since I rebuilt it but it starts easily, doesn't smoke more than a trace, the plug colour is good with no oily deposits and having examined the bore with a bore scope there are no unusual visible wear marks.

However, I will be trying Groundsman semi synthetic when I run out of fully synthetic on the basis of the evidence shown provided by extensive use by other forum members
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Toddy » Wed May 20, 2015 12:24 pm

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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Nelly » Wed May 20, 2015 1:00 pm

Just out of interest, has anybody tried this stuff from an oil supplier called Westway Lubricants.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Litre-2-Str ... 1c5028790e
I've just ordered 5 litres, arrived within a day.
I'll give it a try at that price.
JASO FC & FD, which is what Rayspeed specify as the best to use in their advice sheets on 2 stroke oil.
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Eden » Wed May 20, 2015 1:28 pm



It's gone up a bit. The more you buy the cheaper it is because the postage is the same on any amount. I normally buy 6 X 5 litres.
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Trojanexplosion » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am

is it ok to use 3% oil ratio per litre with the Groundsman semi-synthetic oil or 4%
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Eden » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:46 am

I use 4 but only because it's cheap enough to use 4 lol
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Re: Fully synthetic oil versus semi synthetic oil

Postby Trojanexplosion » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:17 am

cheers Eden
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