My Italian GP200

[nsaints]

I'm not a fan of social media, and as such I'm currently on one of my self imposed social media blackout's where I have disabled my Facebook account, relying on the wife's for any events or news that are relevant. This is far better than reading about what someone had for their breakfast or political views I am not remotely interested in.
As such I'm a supporter and would rather informative posts on this site, such as Alex's excellent TV175 build
To that here is another contribution of my own which hopefully encourages others to post here and increase readership/forum use...please!

Ultimately this thread will provide some detail around my current GP, but thought some previous history of my GP's maybe of some interest.


My current GP, a few weeks before Lincoln 2023
Incidentally those metal gates are the back of the Didcot Power station. The power station long since flattened as we as a country move away from fossil fuels

It all started in 1984, whilst working as an apprentice at Didcot Power Station, both working with Iain Renwick ex of 'Vale of the White Horse SC' and riding to Barry Tech with Charlie in his Austin a40 playing the Who's Quadrophenia..this got my hooked
Strangely I had no interest in the mod revival from a few years previous, but got interested in scootering to get out of the small Oxfordshire market town, where the entertainment was soley a town pub crawl week in week out, repeat.

I worked at Didcot not only with Iain whose stories of riotous parties travelling the length and breadth of the country but also one of the fitters I worked with had built this Lambretta - he told me at the time it was because he'd watched Quadrophenia - as far as I recall he never had any interest in rallies, but rather this GP was sat in his garage unused for years. Which I bought in 1984 for £500

This is me a year after purchase at Margate national in 1985



During 1985 I did as much and as many rallies as I could on my GP
Unfortunately Easter 1986 I was involved in a bad scooter accident. Hospital for 6 weeks, off work for 6 months. I was done with scootering for 5 years, instead doing every northern soul all niter, at every week-end I could experiencing life and the music to the absolute max.
As a side bar I have since tracked down my yellow GP, but sadly only the number plate exists. The number plate is attached to some weird chopper in the Lambretta museum WSM (no longer a GP frame or engine).

Having burnt myself out on the all-niter scene 'burning the candle at both ends' as the saying goes I found scootering again and restored the turquoise blue GP
Cue endless trips to buy parts from Nigel Cox in WSM, where it was also sprayed via Nick Jolly at Surrey and Hants scooters
My blue GP was finally built by Bob White in Swindon


Picture thanks to Adam Winstone IOW, 1996
Me doing the gorilla on a skateboard impression, with the wife hanging off the back!


Milan 1997, doing our thanks to Castrol for the two stroke sponsorship duties with a visit to the Castrol HQ in Milan
from right to left obvs. me (Andy Blake) on the blue GP, Adam Winstone, Dave Deans, Wayne Crowley (restored Jet that was later stolen and found burnt out), and Sacha Freeman
Sacha later buys my blue GP which he still owns to this day


Here we are again on route to Milan, with Monte Carlo in the background

A few years later I moved away from Oxford, my scooter club and sadly fall out of scootering - a young family, no money for a sofa and the blue GP was sold

thats it for now
next installment - back into scootering for a 3rd time, and an unfortunate incident/life event, where I was able to tick off a bucket list item.

[Covboy]

Love this Andy !

[Adam_Winstone]

... I'm enjoying it so far

[nsaints]

When life gives you lemons..

The general atmosphere of the US company I had worked at for +30 was grim for a few years as gradually more and more of my colleagues were let go. UK job's were being moved to low cost countries, as companies became more and more fixated with share price performance
I managed to cling on being one of the last to be let go in the middle of covid.
Being 55 and an enforced back on the job market is not easy by any stretch. However within a couple of months I got a job with a UK based company where your family comes before work was, and still is a refreshing change!

One positive of being made redundant I did receive a sizeable redundancy payout and was now able to scratch the Italian GP200 itch.
Well you do have to look for the positives within some of the crap life can, sometimes, throw at you.

Through not seizing the initiative and dithering I missed a couple of sales, one local to where I live.
However on the way back from the LCGB Derby 150 with Alex and Rusty in 2021, and with a little encouragement from my riding buddies I contacted the seller of a red GP on ebay.
Still available, I arranged to visit the next day - a solo drive to Leeds from Oxford (a 4 hour journey).

A non-stop drive to Leeds with an immediate viewing with no stop or offer of a cup of tea and my head was more than a little 'befuddled'!
However after finally finding the sellers house I inspected and tested with a ride up and down the street a lovely standard matching engine British GP200
A few items my 'cloudy' head from the long drive noted that needed addressing - the horn didn't work, the GP legshield sticker was scratched (the legshield paint work was not damaged) and on the horn casting there was a minor scratch to the paint and one of horn casting rubbers didn't sit correctly
Minor things which didn't detract from the sale for me as I'm fairly practical around a Lambretta.

Here is a picture of the GP on the day of the purchase

[Solid Air]

Great stuff nsaints! Keep it coming please

[alex_hughes]

Such a lovely scooter, I’m glad you are sharing it on here!

[nsaints]

Thanks the the encouragement all. Much appreciated.

1st a question..
Is this just me?
Working on a scooter someone else has rebuilt, you come across something and ask yourself 'why was this decision made?'

The GP is now in my garage and time to look at the couple of issues I noted on the viewing.

Being a scooter with DC electrics the horn unit itself is a big old lump that fills the palm of your hand, with 'Milano' stamped proudly in large letters.
connecting a battery to the horn and all the noise that is made is a clicking sound.
I really don't want to replace this original unit with something modern and not as well made, removing some originality.
I can't find anything on the internet on how the horn works to guide me..
Looking over the unit I see a pair of contacts inside almost like points, and a screw for adjustment on the back.
My assumption is the points open and close as part of the mechanism to generate the horn noise, as opposed to a AC horn where the electrical wave form itself causes the 'whatsitcalled' vibrate to generate the horn noise
I clean the points contacts with some wet and dry and adjust the screw one way and then the other.
Bingo the horn starts working - very pleased, I'm able to maintain some of the GP's originality.



This is the only picture I have at the time where I was fixing the horn.

Next the horn-casting refitting - I can live with the paint scratch. It's minor.

Remember my question to you at the beginning of this post - this is where I asked myself this question the 1st time.

The horn-casting holes do not line up through the legshields, they are way out!
I have since learnt that this hole misalignment is typical on a horn-casting that has been heavily blasted to remove the old paint prior to spraying.
There are witness marks inside the horn-casing indicating the horn-casting was prized wider upon fitting to align the holes through the open headset.
I could easily have done the same refitting the distorted horn-casting already in my hands..

Sorry, not my style.
I source a new old stock horn-casting confirming with the seller the dimensions are correct.
The horn-casing is sent to Matt Sutton at I-Paint, killing two birds - the distorted horn-casting and the scratch.
Once returned I easily fit the horn-casting.

Finally replacing the damaged GP flag sticker in accordance with the Cambridge Lambretta You-Tube video.
The last thing I'd want to do is fit the flag upside down causing Adam yet more internet picture induced heart-ache



Next I'll check over the standard engine, to confirm that passes my personal quality checks.
Until next time.

[gizmo]

You would think something like a horn casting would be a simple thing to fit but you are spot on. A lot are twisted, even new sil ones and like yours when somehow they mysteriously stretch. Unless you are going to a parts fair or visiting the seller and can take a grill to try and place the horn casting on a flat surface to test for twist and have the proper measurement between holes it's a lottery buying one. There's no guarantee a nos one won't be twisted depending how it's been stored. As you say, you can usually force them to fit but we're a faddy lot aren't we

[pacemaker]

Excellent life experience with your Lambretta's. Keep the story coming and have to agree about the lining up of body parts. Who would have thought they were made in the same factory!

[Rich Oswald]

Fantastic thread, keep it going, well done!

[nsaints]

So to the engine..

After sorting the few items noted on the 1st test ride, I went out again for a longer ride.
as expected a standard GP200 is smooth, quiet, and effortless riding.

But still I wanted to check over a few things within the engine - the clutch for wear, chain wear, gearbox clearance, etc..
There was nothing to suspect anything was amiss especially after the longer ride

Unfortunately after stripping out the chain and clutch the gearbox end plate was found to be loose, with an ovalised and cracked dowel hole, also a number of the chain case threads needed repair
Not something I expected to find

I proceeded to remove and strip the engine. The damaged casing then sent to MB for repair of the dowel hole, repair the damaged threads, and for the casing to be refinished using Mark's media tumbling process.



Several weeks later the casing is returned and Mark had done his magic - the work was completed to a very high standard
I rebuilt the standard engine using all new seals and SKF bearings.

The previous owner had fitted a low cost Indian electronic ignition which I junked off
This was replaced with BGM DC stator, 5 pin Ducati regulator (I had to buy this from Rimini Lambretta as the UK didn't have any Ducati 5 pin regulators available - annoying) , a Ducati CDI and an original Ducati electronic flywheel - lovely bit of kit



Flywheel from a GP Electronic model, 3.1 kg's of Ducati gold..?



The all important s shaped magnet in the flywheel that activates the trigger on the stator

Finally everything rebuilt and refitted in the frame and I set the timing - My preference is old school analogue



That's it for this post
Next time, test ride and an annoying vibration I chase my tail over before solving

[vegansydney]

I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. Keep the posts coming.

[nsaints]

Everything is back together and cabled up and off for a test ride


Always best to have that initial 1st test ride with no side panels making it easy to deal with the inevitable cable tension fine tuning, tick over speed and to investigate any rattles
I notice from this picture the lovely Tutto Lambretta exhaust, sadly difficult to source now (not unless production is restarting?)

During the test ride I notice a vibration starting around 50mph and ending around 55mph
Is this new or has it always been there - it's only slight, but now I have noticed it it's annoying me - I need to investigate

I don't remember everything I tried, but it did feel like everything I could think of. Starting at the easy stuff and then progressing to the harder and harder to check items of possibles.
This thread on the forum provided a useful list.
http://www.ilambretta.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2200&p=16900&hilit=vibration#p16900



Checking crank for throw as a possible cause. Looking at this picture I see the DTI mag stand if fixed to the surface plate I made as a 17 year old apprentice.

Sprocket alignment was checked using this home made DTI stand using an old parallel and a length of silver steel welded to it.



I could find nothing wrong, and nothing I tried made any difference or influenced the vibration, it still persisted.

In the end I tried removing the engine for the 2nd time and replace the new BGM engine mounts from the recent rebuild using SIL engine mounts from Scooter Restorations.
I did say to leave the difficult stuff until last!
Instantly that solved the issue - it can have been nothing else but the BGM engine mounts.



A warm spring ride with the Oxford Roadrunners 2022.
I notice the wife's blue P200 within the line up which I restored a few years earlier



I guess this is the end of this chapter - I have a fully sorted standard GP 200

[Storkfoot]

…being a scooter with DC electrics the horn unit itself is a big old lump that fills the palm of your hand, with 'Milano' stamped proudly in large letters.
connecting a battery to the horn and all the noise that is made is a clicking sound.
I really don't want to replace this original unit with something modern and not as well made, removing some originality.
I can't find anything on the internet on how the horn works to guide me..
Looking over the unit I see a pair of contacts inside almost like points, and a screw for adjustment on the back.
My assumption is the points open and close as part of the mechanism to generate the horn noise, as opposed to a AC horn where the electrical wave form itself causes the 'whatsitcalled' vibrate to generate the horn noise
I clean the points contacts with some wet and dry and adjust the screw one way and then the other.
Bingo the horn starts working - very pleased, I'm able to maintain some of the GP's originality….

Thanks for this information. Can you access the “points like” contacts inside without taking the horn apart”

[nsaints]

Yes, no need to strip down the horn to gain access

[GRTDKAD]

Pictures ace - 10/10

[nsaints]

Winter of 2022/2023, after years of procrastination I decide to sell my TV175.
For a couple of years my TV was my rally scooter, and it was not a easy decision after many hours sorting the TV out to be very reliable.
Reading Alex's TV175 resto I still wonder if I made the correct choice to sell it!

Some of the proceeds from the TV sale would be to fund a new engine replacing the standard engine in the GP.
The GP would then become my rally machine, making rally memories riding the GP. My fear was the GP would just sit in my garage, becoming a personal museum exhibit.
The standard engine would be removed and stored for a future date.


Here is the standard engine in storage within my garage today.

I wanted a strong, capable, reliable engine and decide upon the following. Nothing over the top, nothing to go wrong like a reed valve to fail part way to a rally
Uni Casings
RT230
5 plate traditional clutch (not a cassette style clutch)
AF 5 speed
PHBH 30
BGM exhaust

For a reason I'd later regret, I bought the engine complete and preassembled from a dealer

Here's the new engine on the day it arrived, looking nice and shiny!



And here is the GP awaiting the new engine transplant.



Once the engine was fitted I was faced with a multitude of issues to sort out.
I attempted several times to get support from the person who built the engine but was faced with a multitude of poor/ridiculous advice and annoyance on his part that I was even asking questions.
In the end I put this experience down as a life lesson, and to sort the several issues out myself.


Riding back from Lincoln with the engine jumping increasingly out of 5th gear.
Later found to be the internal selector wishbone pressed hard against the casing when in 5th gear.
Solved by myself, grinding some material out the back of the engine - This is all within the AF 5 speed fitting instructions.

My advise to anyone. 1st a foremost do the work yourself. Buy stickies book, use this forum to ask questions and get real advice, ask your scooter club pals. Take your time, be meticulous in your work, checking everything.
Remember the saying 'if you want a job doing properly do it yourself' <<< This 1000%
If you simply have to rely on someone to do work for you, make sure you ask around how others have found their work including after sales support.
Do not spend money with anyone unless you are 100% sure you know what you are getting into.

I don't want to end this post on a negative so here's a picture of something that's nice and shiny.
6 months ago whilst waiting on the new engine I found for sale this GP spare wheel mount.
Here it is, just loosely fitted over the legshields - I'm really pleased with this purchase.

[dickie]

Lovely bike that is. I've never had a GP and despite promising myself that I won't buy another lambretta, you're tempting me.

There is a tendency to believe that anyone who's a professional will behave professionally. A mate had a quattrini 210 built and the dealer used a crank with LI taper. I warned him to get it changed but he believed the dealer rather than me. I understand why he did. Anyway, less than a thousand miles later, the predicted event happened to him. I agree with you, unless you know a dealer personally, I'd do it myself.

But like you say, better not to focus on negative stuff. Lovely bike.

[gizmo]

That is sad. You go to a reputable dealer/ engine builder and you have problems they should bend over backwards to rectify them. I have to admit engine building is still a complete mystery to me after many years even with today's information available. And with rayspeed close by I have had an easy option. Pity you didn't accidentally leave builders name written on box in your photo. . When you find something wrong it always makes you suspicious of everything else. It looks the part though. Can't beat a nice GP

[nsaints]

My last post to bring the story up to date

My preference is a standard looking engine, which means a PHBH 30 with a remote filter does not sit well.
Speaking with, and taking encouragement from Shane (ULC Soulagent) I decide to swap the carb to a PHBL 25, using a SR high volume airbox. As a reminder this is on an RT230 engine
This gives me a standardish looking engine with the airbox, which is important to me

I also change the final drive gearing from 4.46 to 4.71.
This gearing change is based on instinct rather than trying 4.46 and the engine not being able to pull this FD. Final drive of 4.46 the engine was easily pulling with the 30mm carb.

In the last few weeks of summer 2023 I try out the new engine configuration and I'm really pleased with the results.
It was a risk changing to a 25PHBL on an RT230, as all the guidance points to a 30PHBH, and maybe that's what dyno figures would demand?
However the quality of the ride is more important to me than pub bragging rights..

The only thing I've done over the winter is have Corky recover my Scootopia Ancillotti seat, to replace the standard seat.
He's done a fantastic job.
The Ancillotti seat is a nod to my 1st GP, which is sadly forever lost.





Lastly I have fitted a Tippers yellow and black number plate
I remember Alex telling me back in the day everyone rushed to fit yellow and black plates to their scooters to make them 'look more modern', removing the 'old style' black and silver number plates.

I figure the scooter is more period correct with this style of number plate
Not the best location for a picture in my garage, however it's blowing a gale in the dark outside



I have no plans to change anything on the GP anymore.
Maybe change it back to standard in a few years as I have and will keep all the parts to make this change.