AF Clo5e 5 Speed Gearbox

[nsaints]

A month before Lincoln I discovered coasting in neutral with the engine turned off one evening down our drive (neighbors have a newborn) I have a noisy AF 5 speed gearbox. A clicking noise

I can't insert a youtube video to work on the forum only the below url afraid
https://youtube.com/shorts/Sh3zIsUWe1E?feature=share

Clearly I couldn't ignore this and needed to investigate - bit of a rush job as I need to get some miles on the scoot before riding to Lincoln I found the gearbox clearance outside tolerance
Correctly shimmed there was an improvement, but not 100% fixed - sod it I'll ride it how it is and deal with the consequences

Now I'm dealing with the consequences and need some input please
I see via two recent threads an extended layshaft specifically for the AF 5 speed, mention of a mark 2 1st gear with reduced height kick start teeth, and on the AF website a mark 2 gear selector
wow a potential minefield in money spending

1st I drain the oil - 500 miles old and it looks old and black in colour - not looking good
There's remnants of a tooth on the magnetic drain plug - getting worse

I have only removed the side casing and a few things I see - 4 pictures below

The area highlighted by the red arrow - I think this is the kickstart rubbing the top plate
Is this bad enough to want dealing with - I assume grinding material from the kickstart?
I don't see this as a cause for the clicking noise. Yes I know I have fitted the clutch circlip badly


Do I have the improved, reduced height kick start teeth 1st gear?


That accounts for the broken tooth on the magnetic drain plug!
witness marks on other intact teeth at point 2
wondering if this accounts for the clicking - kick start piston interfacing with 1st gear?


Plunger not retracting fully below the kick start

[Fast n Furious]

A thicker chaincase gasket might be your easiest solution here.

[alex_hughes]

I'm wondering, does the dealer who built this offer any sort of guarantee?

[nsaints]

The primary purpose of this post is to ask members feedback on the clicking/ratching noise in neutral my scoot has. I have added a YouTube linked video above to support this question.
If this is NOT normal possible solutions based on the new lay shaft, selector and 1st gear design I have read on this forum. Shame no mention in the online gearbox manual on the new redesigned components.

One person has commented on my YouTube video this is normal
I have spoken to the person who built the engine for their input and I was told this is normal.

I’m not so sure this is normal, hence my post. Note I’ll not be following up with anyone reference warranty or otherwise, this is my problem to own and fix and share any knowledge gained here to the benefit of others

I’ve offered a possible explanation that it’s the kickstart piston. Again not sure as pulling the kick start lever up makes no difference. I’ll check kickstart clearances per the gearbox manual, plus everything else within the manual to a minute degree and maybe it is normal after all.

I’ll start stripping the clutch and gear box over the coming weeks/months (a few holidays in the way of progress) to get to the bottom of it one way or another.

In the meantime any feedback on the clicking noise is welcome, especially fellow AF gearbox owners. Thanks.

[Knowledge]

The classic “is it the k/s plunger?” test is to pull the clutch in in neutral. The clicking should stop when the clutch disconnects the drive from the gearbox.

Does this happen with your engine?

[Den08]

First off does it click like that with side case off you will hear it from hubside, if not it’s most likely a plunger issue, clean all oil off top of clutch and kickstart plunger cover in engineer blue or indelible marker no oil keep it dry reassemble kick it over a few times plug out to make it easier,
That should show you where and what is rubbing to make the clicking noise,
Good luck getting it sorted.

[nsaints]

Pretty sure it didn’t make a difference when I pulled the clutch in pre-Lincoln
I should have tried again this week. The gearbox is out now.

No it does not make the noise when with the clutch cover off in response to Den08
I like the engineers blue tip.

Here’s my working theory. The gearbox was poorly shimmed on 1st inspection
I corrected this but didn’t have a 1.9 shim. A 2 mm shim is just a touch too large. I compromised with a 1.8 due to timescales and the noise stopped until oil circulated into and around the gears. When the oil circulated the noise returned but quieter.
My theory is that the oil is getting between a gears and with slightly too much clearance ‘pushing’ 1st gear gently onto the plunger
Remembering the clearance between 1st gear to kick start plunger is much reduced on a AF 5 speed requiring accurate setup.

1st item on the shopping list is a 1.9mm shim. I’ll continue my inspection.
Obviously the top clutch plate is a separate issue which I’ll also need to address

[nsaints]

As an update this is now fully sorted out, no more LOUD ratcheting in neutral, no more jumping out of fifth gear. No it was NOT normal as a couple of people told me (me bitter, no!).
Thanks for the help from members via PM, on this thread and to my own reading every post/article/guide on AF 5 speed gearboxes, and end plates I could find. I even had to use the 'wayback in time machine' to find/read archived, no longer available AF bulletins.
Enough of my rambling, here's the solution

Important detail, if not mentioned previously the gear box is built in a UNI casing

I found the gearbox end plate was poorly matched to the UNI casing, which using the AF method of shimming gave the gearbox clearance a false reading
Once I sorted that (search for the AF post on youtube how that is achieved) everything fell into place
Special thanks to Alex Hughes for the NOS Innocenti gearbox end plate, which miracle of miracles aligned perfectly without the need for over size drilling holes. The gear box was found to be 0.6mm outside AF recommendation.

As for the jumping out of gear. The wishbone was touching the casings when in 5th - sorted that with the trusty Dremel.

I checked the kickstart clearance to 1st gear using plasticine, and clearance to the clutch top plate via engineers blue, all good!
For luck, to add the icing on the cake I used a slightly thicker crank-case gasket per FnF.

Just come back from a test ride, gearbox selection clean and positive (best it's ever been), no false neutrals, no jumping out of 5th, no loud ratcheting in neutral coasting down the drive with the engine turned off.
Happy days, off for a beer

[Knowledge]

Thanks for bringing us along for the ride. Enjoy that beer.