Clutch...chasing my own tail

[SmudgeDog]

I don't like to ask as I quite enjoy solving probs myself but...

When I got the scoot it had a standard GP200 clutch with extra strong springs in which even though my wrist is titanium reinforced...well I could not pull it without pain.

So I have changed everything, slowly but this is it now:
Teflon cable correctly routed
Uni clutch arm
Readspeed 5 plate kit
MB springs
Casa billet spider
FA lightened deep crownwheel

The prob I have is creep, so I adjust it so there is no creep....slippage!

When I put this together I did compress to coilbound and there is loads of space there. I did not measure but about 10-12mm. I thought at the time "I can fit another 2 plates in there". Top plate tangs are within the slots, no bending needed.

And that is what I am going to do first, fit as many extra plates in whilst keeping 2mm separation and fill it with DexIII. Does that sound reasonable? After that it will be a cassette clutch, probs AF road!
Thanks for your thoughts if you have any.

[Storkfoot]

Try it without the Uni clutch arm. I gave up on the one I tried as I too found the margin between creeping and slippage to be minimal.

[Tractorman]

Silly question, perhaps but if it is a standard GP200 why do you need why the need for those upgrades.

[L111amo]

Ditch the mb springs as well, go std

[Knowledge]

Silly question, perhaps but if it is a standard GP200 why do you need why the need for those upgrades.

Not a silly question

[Adam_Winstone]

Sorry to read that you're faced with the same age-old problem.

A couple of things that have already been touched on:

1. If you've fitted the AF arm, do be aware that moving the trunnion out away from pivot point = easier action BUT ALSO less rotation for same lever/cable travel, meaning that you can quickly run into the scenario of binding (not fully releasing) again!

2. Your 5-plate and deep crownwheel needs additional travel, whereas your extended AF arm results in less travel at clutch for easier lever action at bars.... so you're heading in opposite directions!

3. Fitting a deeper crownwheel + extra plates can lead to no additional separation (therefore bind/drag), especially if strong springs go coilbound and don't allow pressure plate to travel deeper into crownwheel. Thankfully, the MB uprated springs are pretty good for allowing short compression but you may still be suffering from components working against each other.

Lots and lots of people suffer drag issues with 4-plates because so many corks are being made too thick, causingbissue andcresulting in people spending a fortune on more incompatible parts that just add to their woes.

You may want to consider going back to something simpler, which can often resolve the issues. NB: Cambridge Lambretta now supply thinner steels in their 4-plate rebuild kits as they'd realised that standard 4-plate corks are very frequently too thick, resulting in drag. All too often, standard 4-plates with decent springs are capable of taking up to 20bhp but the replacement corks are simply too thick (incl. Surflex) so swapping from 1.5mm to 1.2mm steels is a frequently needed fix.

All the best and I hope that you resolve it soon. Clutch issues are an all too common problem.

[martyn dwane]

The kit comprises of 5 x Red Race Friction Plates, 4 x 1.2mm Steels, and 5 of our uprated clutch springs. This kit will fit with your existing basket and clutch spider etc.

Why use a deep crown wheel ?

[SmudgeDog]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll try to clarify.
Standard clutch, not standard top end. I have not even looked yet but was told "well rapid 225". It is alloy and carb on normal side so maybe Mugello or RT or other that I do not know of.

The kit comprises of 5 x Red Race Friction Plates, 4 x 1.2mm Steels, and 5 of our uprated clutch springs. This kit will fit with your existing basket and clutch spider etc.

Why use a deep crown wheel ?

Because that was my first step and has worked for me in the past but did not this time.

I've stripped it again so will have a proper play and take some accurate measurements this time. I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks.

[coaster]

"well rapid 225". It is alloy and carb on normal side so maybe Mugello or RT or other that I do not know of.

Could he have said RAPIDO 225? they were popular a few years ago, all iron lined barrel

[Mag]

If it is the standard clutch crownwheel, I take it it hasn’t been machined to allow the extra travel of the corks.

I tried fitting a Reedspeed 5 plate in my standard GP200 clutch and there wasn’t enough play, but when I replaced the crownwheel with an adapted one from AF it worked spot on.

[Leotech]

I had similar issues with 5 plate clutches, creeping / dragging. Tried harder springs etc. to no avail.

Lots of remade parts are rubbish, I had a 5 plate all singing and dancing clutch, slipped and dragged, I took out the 1.2mm plates and there were only signs of slipping on about 1/3rd of the surface due to them not being made flat. This was on a 200 cast iron cylinder, so there should have been no need for a fancy clutch set up.


I've gone back to original thickness steels, GP crown wheels, 4 correct thickness fibre plates from MB, MB springs, a 3mm top plate and all my clutches are a pleasure to use. This set up works up to and including my RT225 engines. The plates etc. from MB are well priced too.

[SmudgeDog]

I think this is sorted. I changed the UNI clutch arm back to the standard SIL one and put in a set of standard springs. I measured the distance the thrust bush protudes with 20deg on the clutch arm and it was more with the SIL one. Tomorrow is test ride day which will probably prove me wrong but it does feel much better. Thanks again.

[Speedy Hufton]

Just noticed this post but before I get shot down for being STOOPID, I remember having a chat with Ben on a social visit fut see the family about the AFR/UNI clutch arm. What I was told, but please check with Rayspeed yourself, is that it will only work correctly with the AF cassette clutch, the new Python 8 plate when it arrives and the LTH or Readspeed Red 6 plate clutches.
Ben claimed this was because of the inaccuracy of various modern clutch components that it would cause issues. In fairness anyone of whom I have heard slagging the arm off as being rubbish has had a standard clutch set up as such. He added though that if all clutches were as exact innocenti built quality, then they would work. Cheers, Speedy.

[Rich Oswald]

Just noticed this post but before I get shot down for being STOOPID, I remember having a chat with Ben on a social visit fut see the family about the AFR/UNI clutch arm. What I was told, but please check with Rayspeed yourself, is that it will only work correctly with the AF cassette clutch, the new Python 8 plate when it arrives and the LTH or Readspeed Red 6 plate clutches.
Ben claimed this was because of the inaccuracy of various modern clutch components that it would cause issues. In fairness anyone of whom I have heard slagging the arm off as being rubbish has had a standard clutch set up as such. He added though that if all clutches were as exact innocenti built quality, then they would work. Cheers, Speedy.

My AF/UNI clutch arm worked well with a standard clutch with MB springs and made life easier for my old arthritic hands. Perhaps mine was "exact" as Innocenti intended?

Rich'

[Speedy Hufton]

Fair play Richard, nice seeing that it works for you as I've never tried as mine have cassette clutches in and the jet a 5 playe readspeed. I've heard such crazy things about em it's annoying. One friend complained it made the clutch action too soft. When I asked why he'd fitted one, it was because his Cambridge Lambretta 6 playe was far too heavy. I can't get my breath

[Rich Oswald]

Fair play Richard, nice seeing that it works for you as I've never tried as mine have cassette clutches in and the jet a 5 playe readspeed. I've heard such crazy things about em it's annoying. One friend complained it made the clutch action too soft. When I asked why he'd fitted one, it was because his Cambridge Lambretta 6 playe was far too heavy. I can't get my breath

I've fitted a cassette now also and it's even better.