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Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Technical help for Series one, two and three Lambrettas. Models include the Li, Li Special, TV, SX, GP, Serveta and API/SIL models

Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:18 pm

I am considering purchasing one of these in the new year. I am attracted to buying this remade one rather than an old Campagnolo set up because I have used one of his internal discs in the past and was impressed with it.

Is anyone using the complete disc and, if so, what opinion do you have of it please.

http://armandosscooters.com/blog/lambre ... e-in-italy
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby ToBoldlyGo » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:21 pm

Heightist! :lol:
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby ULC Soulagent » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:57 pm

I bought the hydra type 2 years ago for my Jet200 and only got it painted and rebuilt. Turns out the main hub is ovoid :evil:
Waste of money if you ask me. :?
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:04 pm

Thanks, mate. I’ll buy an old one again and refurbish it. I have heard of another Tino one that wasn’t good either.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby HxPaul » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:25 am

I have a ScootRS inboard disc with sintered pads and thicker cable,set up as reverse pull.Fantastic brake,I have used it for a few years and never let me down.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:51 pm

HxPaul wrote:I have a ScootRS inboard disc with sintered pads and thicker cable,set up as reverse pull.Fantastic brake,I have used it for a few years and never let me down.


Thanks but I recall reading a post from a lad who had loads of issues sorting a ScootRS one out whereas the two original ones that I have set up have been very straightforward.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby bike grim » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:15 pm

Paul, I’ve got an Evergreen hydraulic inboard secondhand that I’ll sell if you want to try before you buy. Bought it off Steve Grant a few years ago but never used it.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:43 am

PM sent, Gareth. Thanks for the offer.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby coaster » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:07 pm

Storkfoot wrote:
HxPaul wrote:I have a ScootRS inboard disc with sintered pads and thicker cable,set up as reverse pull.Fantastic brake,I have used it for a few years and never let me down.


Thanks but I recall reading a post from a lad who had loads of issues sorting a ScootRS one out whereas the two original ones that I have set up have been very straightforward.


I bought a very cheap ScootRs one which had the groove for the large circlip holding the actuator in place poorly machined. I bought a hydraulic conversion side plate and sintered pads and ended up with a brake good enough to lock the front wheel on the rollers when I took it for its MOT....the tester did have hands like a gorilla though :o
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Thankfully, there are still plenty of old original discs around even if they’re not cheap.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby dave999 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:39 pm

but they are cast aluminium alloy that has been stressed for 40 - 60 years....
Aluminium wheels used on race cars have their useful life measured in no. of race miles completed or no. of sets of tyres worn out...
i.e a set of Cast slot mag alloys on a 60s or 70s saloon car (race car) would be used for 10 12 sets of tyres then scrapped... (circuit racing rather than sprints/drag)

no such thing for street use...its not stressing them like race use, but most vehicles of the 50s to 80s were designed with the idea that they would last 5 of 6 years... not 50+

now i think if alloy front hubs, disc or drum, on lambrettas were failing due to stress fractures we'd know,it would be in the press, but i wouldn't want to be the first to find out.

old alloy really should be stripped and penetrant dye checked before you trust it with your life.
on a scooter with 3 times the original HP and pads that sometimes work way better than they did in the old days

The originals have lasted really well and there doesn't seem to be a problem... who's to say if the modern replacement parts will last as long...
BUT there does seem to be the odd problem with rear hubs, hence the series 2/spanish hub price differential.

a new replacement part from errr one of 2 places i guess.... SPAQ or mr Sacchi that potentially needs a modicum of re work to make it work right might be safer in the long run than spending the same on a collection of 50+ year old parts.

my view is based on race cars with alloy wheels and gearbox bellhousings that have been know to explode at speed. i don't have lambretta on the road with a disc brake....so might be a moot point....but 50 year old ally is ally....its not modern forged heat treated or hypereutectic aluminium alloy. its a soup of mainly aluminium cooked up at the lowest cost for a mass produced vehicle. perfect quality casting on day 1 will have degraded somewhat by day 22,000

maybe old back plate and actuator hardware, with new hub is the way to go... provided the disk pins and wheel studs are in the right place

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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:14 am

dave999 wrote:but they are cast aluminium alloy that has been stressed for 40 - 60 years....
Aluminium wheels used on race cars have their useful life measured in no. of race miles completed or no. of sets of tyres worn out...
i.e a set of Cast slot mag alloys on a 60s or 70s saloon car (race car) would be used for 10 12 sets of tyres then scrapped... (circuit racing rather than sprints/drag)

no such thing for street use...its not stressing them like race use, but most vehicles of the 50s to 80s were designed with the idea that they would last 5 of 6 years... not 50+

now i think if alloy front hubs, disc or drum, on lambrettas were failing due to stress fractures we'd know,it would be in the press, but i wouldn't want to be the first to find out.

old alloy really should be stripped and penetrant dye checked before you trust it with your life.
on a scooter with 3 times the original HP and pads that sometimes work way better than they did in the old days

The originals have lasted really well and there doesn't seem to be a problem... who's to say if the modern replacement parts will last as long...
BUT there does seem to be the odd problem with rear hubs, hence the series 2/spanish hub price differential.

a new replacement part from errr one of 2 places i guess.... SPAQ or mr Sacchi that potentially needs a modicum of re work to make it work right might be safer in the long run than spending the same on a collection of 50+ year old parts.

my view is based on race cars with alloy wheels and gearbox bellhousings that have been know to explode at speed. i don't have lambretta on the road with a disc brake....so might be a moot point....but 50 year old ally is ally....its not modern forged heat treated or hypereutectic aluminium alloy. its a soup of mainly aluminium cooked up at the lowest cost for a mass produced vehicle. perfect quality casting on day 1 will have degraded somewhat by day 22,000

maybe old back plate and actuator hardware, with new hub is the way to go... provided the disk pins and wheel studs are in the right place

dave


I accept your point but, if I truly wanted to avoid metal fatigue risks, I’d buy a new scooter or motorcycle and not race about on a Lambretta frame that may be rusting from the inside out. That said, I am all for minimising risks by buying good quality new remade parts.

Sadly, from what I have learnt on this thread and elsewhere, I am far from convinced that spending £450 for the Italian one, less for the ScootRS one, will be money well spent.

I have got a casing dye penetrant tested in the past so I may get that done if I have any significant doubts about any old disc brake that I buy. Then, arguing with myself, I suppose there is a case that any rear hubs that have done, say, 30,000 miles should be tested too. Where do you stop ?
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby steveg » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:03 am

Storkfoot wrote: Where do you stop ?


I guess that depends n how reliable your brakes are :shock:
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Storkfoot » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:05 am

steveg wrote:
Storkfoot wrote: Where do you stop ?


I guess that depends n how reliable your brakes are :shock:


:P :lol:
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Warkton Tornado No.1 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:03 am

Our reliance upon the ageing components has been discussed to some extent, in particular with regard to lay-shafts.

The debate was an emotive one & IMHO there has yet to be a suitable resolution.

Personally, I do not subscribe to the apparent commonly held view that any component remade will be better for it. I base my opinion upon the fact that Lambretta components manufactured under the instruction of the likes of Innocenti will have conformed to a 'standard' from the material through to even the Inspection & Testing process.

I may be ignorant of those same standards being applied to modern copies, but until proven otherwise, will steer clear. After all, we cannot attribute the poor replacements entirely to the country of origin, bearing (no pun intended) in mind the fact that rear hub bearings came to market as the brainchild of a UK entrepreneur....

Although I do not know of one failure of the OEM Campagnolo disc brakes, even when used for racing, with or without a hydraulic conversion, it would be nice if we could collectively get non-destructive testing. The same cannot be said of rear hubs, though I am unaware of the stronger Serveta items failing @ all. The one saving grace of OEM rear hub failure will be the fail safe feature within the design to collapse 'inwardly. Failure of the splines will not have been due to the design but poor fitting @ some time. However, my belief is that the failure of certain components will be due to abuse, most likely during previous ownership.

Fortunately, any mistreatment is likely to be fairly obvious with die-cast alloy hubs.

Not so with rear lay-shafts, which may have covered many miles overloaded, under torqued or over torqued, in which case fatigue will be exasperated, although hardly obvious.

Good reason to hang on to those components that we all may have acquired over the years until such time as an organisation representative of us Lambretta owners takes the initiative for testing in the absence of there being any realistic 'lifing' process as is the case in other particular areas associated with motorised craft.
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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby dave999 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:31 pm

seems like valid points made all round....

where do you stop? yup.... personal choice i guess

rusty frame...well its steel, in theory it bows and bends before it breaks, in a way cast aluminium doesn't, well doesn't after its work hardened, but i take your point.


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Re: Tiny Sacchi front disc brake

Postby Timexit17 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:00 pm

I have one and it's well enough made for the job but not as stunning as the price might imply.

I was disappointed a little in the sand cast appearance (not saying it IS sand cast but it's a rough surface -particularly inside the hub on mine- far worse than an original hub/backplate or even a Scoot RS type.
I really liked the neat little slave reservoir/switch unit until I came to fit it.

a) It fits to the tube via a billet aluminium clamp, no matter where I tried to fit the clamp it seemed to stick out at an angle and was immediately obvious when looking at the scooter, I had hoped it could be hidden away rather than like that, but whatever position I tried I could still clearly see it and it looked distinctly odd.
b) Even worse when trying to bleed the slave I quickly found it was impossible -I tried an 'easy bleed', I tried the syringe method (from both ends!) but I went through at least 2 bottles of fluid and it was still as spongy as buggery.

I gave up in the end, keeping the disc and brake tube but using a oiltek remote reservoir system, which fitted beautifully under the floorboards (neat, can't be seen) and bled easily.

Performance? distinctly 'meh', but that might be the same as all cable operated remotes -I've had a scootRS one with master on the headset before on my old SILGP and that was excellent -easily as good as a Pontedera factory made Vesp* PXE.
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