New Casa Layshaft

[Scooterslag]

http://www.scooterlab.uk/new-casa-perfo ... nent-news/

looks pretty good and the price isn't too silly either, I'm about to build up another engine and the whole snapping layshaft thing has got me worried especially with the state of the roads these days. I see that its been forged then machined, I'm no metallurgist so is this a effective process for increasing strength in a component? cheers Paul

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

I see that its been forged then machined, I'm no metallurgist so is this a effective process for increasing strength in a component?

A very reasonable question & forging is the process of shaping a lump of metal whilst still almost molten (& therefore ‘plastic’) so that the granular structure should offer many mechanical advantages.

It is a distinctly different process to casting principally because the hammering into shape should improve the granular structure & notably, most forgings are denser than castings.
However, there are forgings, & there are forgings! The best will have more stages in the process so that their finish machining is @ a minimum. A layshaft could claim to be a forging made from a forged bar! Yet, that is only a forging as far as the maximum diameter.

A better forging would comprise stages of the process where the major & all smaller diameters were hammered to just above finished sizes to obtain the optimum grain structure.

It would be fantastic to see photos of the whole process involved in production of these new Casa layshafts & something they should be proud & prepared to reveal.

Perhaps that may yet happen...

I would consider the purchase of such an item only if the full process was verified & until such a time comes, will stick with old Innocenti/Eibar OEM products. I have spoken previously about my theories concerning layshaft failure.


Now, moving on from forging to another process, if I’ve made myself understood, I am often cynical when manufacturers say proudly that an item is “CNC machined from billet” as if that is going to inspire all of us to rush out & buy such an item….. We're not all that easily 'took in,' are we, by what appears to be the latest 'Scooter Bling?'

[Scooterslag]

I see that its been forged then machined, I'm no metallurgist so is this a effective process for increasing strength in a component?

A very reasonable question & forging is the process of shaping a lump of metal whilst still almost molten (& therefore ‘plastic’) so that the granular structure should offer many mechanical advantages.

It is a distinctly different process to casting principally because the hammering into shape should improve the granular structure & notably, most forgings are denser than castings.
However, there are forgings, & there are forgings! The best will have more stages in the process so that their finish machining is @ a minimum. A layshaft could claim to be a forging made from a forged bar! Yet, that is only a forging as far as the maximum diameter.

A better forging would comprise stages of the process where the major & all smaller diameters were hammered to just above finished sizes to obtain the optimum grain structure.

It would be fantastic to see photos of the whole process involved in production of these new Casa layshafts & something they should be proud & prepared to reveal.

Perhaps that may yet happen...

I would consider the purchase of such an item only if the full process was verified & until such a time comes, will stick with old Innocenti/Eibar OEM products. I have spoken previously about my theories concerning layshaft failure.


Now, moving on from forging to another process, if I’ve made myself understood, I am often cynical when manufacturers say proudly that an item is “CNC machined from billet” as if that is going to inspire all of us to rush out & buy such an item….. We're not all that easily 'took in,' are we, by what appears to be the latest 'Scooter Bling?'

Thanks for the reply - always take notice of your 'techy breakdowns of things. Yeah I'm interested in the layshaft but until its been road proven by a few folks - I'll hang back from buying one. As you recall from another thread, the causes of layshaft failure haven't really been got to the bottom of yet and even a super-duper layshaft made from a famous UK tuner has been know to fail so it seems that nothing is really infallible. I've got a couple of really good condition innocenti so probably stick to using them. Cheers Paul

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

Thank you for your kind response.

Funny Old World, UK Scootering…

Often the things that are so readily dismissed can prove to be as good as you can get.

Crankshafts are a prime example, with many of us buying ‘prettier’ ones that proved to be nowhere near as good as the SIL webs yet costing so much more.....