Series 3 LI Special rear hub problems updated -help!

[landybretta]

I replaced my rear hub a couple of years ago from a reputable supplier.
Never really been happy with it, should have sent it back, out of true.
Recommendations for a safe replacement would be appreciated.

[skinnerwill]

wonder if you got it same place as me, i did send mine back.
i got new one from rayspeed , not perfect but a damn site better than other one

[landybretta]

wonder if you got it same place as me, i did send mine back.
i got new one from rayspeed , not perfect but a damn site better than other one

PM sent

[skinnerwill]

nothing received

[vegansydney]

Buy a used Innocenti one. At least it will fit! If you have an eye for details, production changed to the SX/GP type in late '65, everything earlier had the standard S3 type.

[landybretta]

Buy a used Innocenti one. At least it will fit! If you have an eye for details, production changed to the SX/GP type in late '65, everything earlier had the standard S3 type.

Thought about that but easier said than done and obviously would' not be able to confirm condition until purchased.

[Fast n Furious]

At least with a new one you will get a new matching taperlock cone. (hopefully)

[landybretta]

5 brake shoe wear.jpg

7 cone on splines.jpg

2 cone in hub.jpg

The lip on the brake shoes suggests that the hub is not fully seated when tightened.
The cone is slightly loose on the splines and is fully home. Can be spun round by hand.
Any suggestions as to what the problem may be would be appreciated.

The hub and matching cone were purchased from a reputable supplier.
No problems with the previous hub which I believe was an original part. (I damaged it unfortunately).

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

5 brake shoe wear.jpg

7 cone on splines.jpg

2 cone in hub.jpg

The lip on the brake shoes suggests that the hub is not fully seated when tightened.
The cone is slightly loose on the splines and is fully home. Can be spun round by hand.
Any suggestions as to what the problem may be would be appreciated.

The hub and matching cone were purchased from a reputable supplier.
No problems with the previous hub which I believe was an original part. (I damaged it unfortunately).

That looks like the wrong cone for that hub & I'd be surprised if the tapers match. Presumably you were unaware of the need to lap in the cone to the hub with grinding paste. That task is essential IMO to obtain the correct fit & it is also a means of checking that the tapers match, as there are three variations of angle across the range of large block engines. I think you should be prepared to name the manufacturer & supplier, particularly as this is a safety issue that should concern all of us

To be fair to the supplier, it may have been an error they would do there upmost to put right, even @ this late stage. A good supplier (& Trading Standards) will not hide behind excuses like 'a year's warranty' as this kind of item is not something that should be expected to only last such a short period of time.

I have previously mentioned that I prefer the Serveta rear hubs but the problem can be in finding cones that are fit for purpose. Scooter Restorations supply replacement cones but of the ones that I have bought, although they are a good fit, simply are not hard enough. The consequences are that the spline of the layshaft actually embeds into the cone & the result is a hub that loses the tightness of fit despite the torque applied. In fact, if anybody can recommend replacement cones from another supplier, I would be grateful to know

[Storkfoot]

When you say the hub is out of true, how do you come to that belief? Are you keeping your eye on the outer edge of the hub itself as it rotates? Or, as is visible on one of mine, is the brake shoe visibly not engaging with part of the inner track?

If you tighten the hub up to the proper torque setting, with the shim under the cone, is there any play if you grab at the hub, other than the normal “give” you get from the rear hub bearing?

Has the hub ever come loose? I ask as I would have thought that if you have an incorrectly matched cone, the hub would move and you may initially feel this by the brake coming on and making the hub hot.

I have seen the outer lip on plenty of my shoes in the past and never thought anything about it. I may be wrong though. The cone on the layshaft, with the hub off, is not especially tight. You can normally take it off with your fingers.

Having asked all these questions , I do recall reading posts about Scootopia hubs not, at one time about 3 years ago, being a brilliant match with their cones

Since Uni started making hubs several years ago, I have used them without real issue. FA Italia were the generally available ones previously. Uni are much better made, in my opinion. The only issue I have come across with Uni ones is that the inner track does not always engage 100% with the shoe throughout its rotation.

[MickYork]

Maybe the hub/nut is bottoming out before getting the cone fully compressed. Would a thicker washer behind the cone help to get a tighter fit ?

[landybretta]

When you say the hub is out of true, how do you come to that belief? Are you keeping your eye on the outer edge of the hub itself as it rotates? Or, as is visible on one of mine, is the brake shoe visibly not engaging with part of the inner track?

If you tighten the hub up to the proper torque setting, with the shim under the cone, is there any play if you grab at the hub, other than the normal “give” you get from the rear hub bearing?

Has the hub ever come loose? I ask as I would have thought that if you have an incorrectly matched cone, the hub would move and you may initially feel this by the brake coming on and making the hub hot.

I have seen the outer lip on plenty of my shoes in the past and never thought anything about it. I may be wrong though. The cone on the layshaft, with the hub off, is not especially tight. You can normally take it off with your fingers.

Having asked all these questions , I do recall reading posts about Scootopia hubs not, at one time about 3 years ago, being a brilliant match with their cones

Since Uni started making hubs several years ago, I have used them without real issue. FA Italia were the generally available ones previously. Uni are much better made, in my opinion. The only issue I have come across with Uni ones is that the inner track does not always engage 100% with the shoe throughout its rotation.

In answer to your questions.

Maybe out of true was not quite the appropriate wording but one of the brake shoes is not visibly engaging with part of the inner track. When braking the shoes grab and braking is not progressive. Very easy to lock up. Same brake set up as with previous hub with no problems.

When fully torqued there does not appear to be any abnormal movement.

The hub has never come loose but I have not done a lot of miles since it was fitted due to the pandemic etc.

Did not have a lip on the brake shoes with the original hub. The cone on the layshaft is a loose fit. When the hub is removed the cone comes of attached to the hub and is a tight fit and has to be knocked out.

The hub and cone were purchased from the supplier you mentioned about 3 years ago.

[Fast n Furious]

The easiest way I find to make certain that the cone is the right one for a hub (old or new), is to lap the cone to the hub with some grinding paste. I have a rubber ball with a bolt through the centre. My pistol drill grabs and spins the cone nicely with this simple tool in both directions.
If I only get a thin grey line then it's the wrong cone for that hub. A line almost as wide as the cone itself is what I'm looking for. 1 in 3 chance of getting the right one.

[landybretta]

The easiest way I find to make certain that the cone is the right one for a hub (old or new), is to lap the cone to the hub with some grinding paste. I have a rubber ball with a bolt through the centre. My pistol drill grabs and spins the cone nicely with this simple tool in both directions.
If I only get a thin grey line then it's the wrong cone for that hub. A line almost as wide as the cone itself is what I'm looking for. 1 in 3 chance of getting the right one.

Thanks for that I will give it a go.

[Warkton Tornado No.1]

The more I look @ the image of the hub with the cone in, the more I am convinced:

'That looks like the wrong cone for that hub & I'd be surprised if the tapers match'

[landybretta]

The more I look @ the image of the hub with the cone in, the more I am convinced:

'That looks like the wrong cone for that hub & I'd be surprised if the tapers match'

Okay, thanks for the input and advice.

[Storkfoot]

When you say the hub is out of true, how do you come to that belief? Are you keeping your eye on the outer edge of the hub itself as it rotates? Or, as is visible on one of mine, is the brake shoe visibly not engaging with part of the inner track?

If you tighten the hub up to the proper torque setting, with the shim under the cone, is there any play if you grab at the hub, other than the normal “give” you get from the rear hub bearing?

Has the hub ever come loose? I ask as I would have thought that if you have an incorrectly matched cone, the hub would move and you may initially feel this by the brake coming on and making the hub hot.

I have seen the outer lip on plenty of my shoes in the past and never thought anything about it. I may be wrong though. The cone on the layshaft, with the hub off, is not especially tight. You can normally take it off with your fingers.

Having asked all these questions , I do recall reading posts about Scootopia hubs not, at one time about 3 years ago, being a brilliant match with their cones

Since Uni started making hubs several years ago, I have used them without real issue. FA Italia were the generally available ones previously. Uni are much better made, in my opinion. The only issue I have come across with Uni ones is that the inner track does not always engage 100% with the shoe throughout its rotation.

In answer to your questions.

Maybe out of true was not quite the appropriate wording but one of the brake shoes is not visibly engaging with part of the inner track. When braking the shoes grab and braking is not progressive. Very easy to lock up. Same brake set up as with previous hub with no problems.

When fully torqued there does not appear to be any abnormal movement.

The hub has never come loose but I have not done a lot of miles since it was fitted due to the pandemic etc.

Did not have a lip on the brake shoes with the original hub. The cone on the layshaft is a loose fit. When the hub is removed the cone comes of attached to the hub and is a tight fit and has to be knocked out.

The hub and cone were purchased from the supplier you mentioned about 3 years ago.

Scootopia’s customer service is pretty good in my experience. I’d suspect that they still recall this issue they had and will probably see you right, even with just a correct cone. Definitely worth an email

[Leotech]

5 brake shoe wear.jpg

7 cone on splines.jpg

2 cone in hub.jpg

The lip on the brake shoes suggests that the hub is not fully seated when tightened.
The cone is slightly loose on the splines and is fully home. Can be spun round by hand.
Any suggestions as to what the problem may be would be appreciated.

The hub and matching cone were purchased from a reputable supplier.
No problems with the previous hub which I believe was an original part. (I damaged it unfortunately).

I just removed a hub and the brake shoes looked like that, in my case the last 6-8mm of the cast iron braking ring in the hub had been broken away. The part that forms the labyrinth seal with the rim on the engine case.


If the cone feels a good fit it may be worth checking the braking area of the hub to check it it not broken away like mine was.

[bookertmgs1]

A timely thread for me

Just read these comments - have issues with what i think is excessive play at the rear hub.

Thanks for someone actually stating the supplier - I hadnt heard of any issues - but I replaced my rear hub in the period stated. Is it the cone thats wrong or the actual hub ?

I'd previously put it down to worn layshaft & rear hub bearing - both of which I'd replaced along with the the end place bearing track.

I rechecked the hub / cone taper only yesterday and was unhappy with the fit. I''d previoulsy assumed as the hub was new that the cone & taper would be fine with a bit of a lap. Sadly I didnt check properly.

I'll give the rubber ball trck a go - thanks

[skinnerwill]

i posted about this quite a while ago and named supplier (same). post was removed and i got told off, which i suppose is correct, but people need to know about these problems especially if safety issues could be involved. but they continue to be on market